So, heroic dungeons are now pointless?

[Jaylock]

Both of which will be available via other mediums, as well as Mythic dungeons.

So, my question is, what's the point in heroic dungeons, other than as a gearing hop?

It could reasonably be argued that they were always a gearing hop to raids, but that doesn't answer why dungeons are now a loot hurdle... To exactly the same dungeons, all over again.

Its called small group progression. Just like raiding is large group progression. All moving the achievement out of Heroic dungeons does is now people who click a button to queue up cant get easy achievements mindlessly with random strangers that they were matchmaked to. Its just like in LFR where you get an achievement for completing the wing, but you dont get any achievements that require you to run it in normal or higher, which take you creating the group either with your guild or the group finder tool.

Heroic dungeons will still be relevant for alts, for quick random heroic of the day rewards, for tank / healer loot bags, etc. They will serve the same purpose they serve today. Sometimes ppl just want to click a button and do a faceroll dungeons just because, and they will still be able to do that. But if one wants to do specific things in a dungeon, they now have to put the group together themselves either with their guild or by using the amazingly advanced tool now available to all players that was never before available in all previous expansions to WoD... aka the group finder tool

[Supercool]

Putting the achievements in Mythic makes perfect sense because queue'd randoms never want to bother with achievements anyway.

The whole of Legion's dungeon experience is Blizz prodding the single player dudes out there to make some damn friends already. Guilds and players will both benefit if people step out of the queue'd system and into stable online interactions with regular groups of players.

[RedGamer030]

This is what happens when Blizzard adds four difficulties to everything - players begin to piss and moan about a certain difficulty becoming "obsolete."

[Jaylock]

Im having hard time understanding the need for so many difficulties. Normal = normal diff, heroic = hard, thats it, thats the way it was in tbc and cata. Theres no need for faceroll difficulty, easy, normal, then hard(cms), its an absolutely unecessary and moronic system that failed epically with raiding and now they're bringing it into dungeons.

We only need normal, hard, maybe a step above it. We sure as hell don't need four difficulties, 2 of them being a complete joke.

OT: Yes heroics will only serve as a way to get gear very early in the expansion, then will become 100% useless a la MoP/WoD.

Normal = Level-up difficulty (gives players something to do other than quest while they are leveling up)

Heroic = Starter level 100 difficulty (gearing up phase for organized content)

Mythic = Small group level 100 progression difficulty (new progression path for more casual players, aka casual player's organized content)

Mythic+ = Small group level 100 progression difficulty (constant challenge and progression for smaller groups for those who want to push the limits of their capabilities in a 5 man format)

Pretty simple if you ask me.

- - - Updated - - -

This is what happens when Blizzard adds four difficulties to everything - players begin to piss and moan about a certain difficulty becoming "obsolete."

At least taking shit off the random queue is a step in the right direction to removing said queue from the game.

[Lime]

that if you douched it up with players on your own realm you would only be screwing yourself over.

Not really, no. I still don't know why that myth caught on. It holds about as much water as someone on CoD saying not to mess with them or they'll hack you.

Blacklisting barely affected people. Most of the server didn't care or pay attention to what the rest of the people were doing. You had people crash weddings and funerals and never faced any of these punishments, despite the many threats of "blacklisting". You had infamous ninjas still continue to make progress.

Yes, rarely, if you were blacklisted, would you run across someone who would refuse to play with you? Sure. But they were by far the few. After getting declined, the player would just simply group with other blacklisted players or the majority of people who just simply didn't care.

Anyone who threw out threats of blacklisting others were laughed at by others as jokes.

[lukoil]

for completing dungeon world quests faster?

[Pua]

You are just stuck on a word. Who cares if its heroic, who cares if its mythic. Heroics used to have a weekly lockout in TBC, now that place in content is for mythic dungeons.

Besides, all dungeons can drop titanforged. Nothing is pointless. But great attempt at creating a thread that perpetuates ignorance and falsehoods.

The only thing that's greater is your complete inability to see the point. It'd have meant you'd need to read more than one comment, of course, so I'll forgive you.

[Ornerybear]

i thought heroics couldnt get anymore pointless than in WoD?

[Ehuehuecopter]

What is the meaning of this thread? If you think Heroics will be worthless in legion, you probably havent try heroics in wod ATM,

[Cynical Person]

Life is pointless. Doesn't mean it still can't be fun.

Go drink some bleach (in a fun way)

[Twistedelmo]

Mythic is the new version of Heroics from TBC and Early Wrath before Group finder existed.

[nazrakin]

A point I made about Mythic dungeons during 6.2 was that they would cause design problems if they were a “thing” going forward. Now that the latest build is seeing “Legion Dungeon Hero” require Mythic achievements, rather than heroic, it would seem as though this is now coming to fruition.

Ultimately, the problem is that Mythic dungeons crowd out the requirement for heroic dungeons as just another piece of content to repeat once geared. When you hit max level, you’d traditionally use heroic dungeons to gear up for raids. Now, with Mythic dungeons in place from the start, you’ll hit max level, and then gear up for Mythic dungeons by running heroic dungeons… Prior to raiding (assuming you do that at all). We’re also now at the stage where another meta-achievement, largely aimed at more casual players, has been pushed to a higher difficulty for no reason.

I get the basic design concept, though.

The new Mythic+ system has been devised for players that want small-group progression, and that’s a good thing. One of the side-effects, however, is that heroic dungeons are now essentially pointless. Because they’re nothing but a gearing hop, especially with the meta-achievement now taken out, players are likely to try and avoid them altogether. Blizzard’s solution to this recently has been to put currency or some other reward into them, but that won’t apply solely to heroic dungeons – any such system would surely be applied to Mythic as well.

So why keep heroic dungeons in the game?

What are they there for if you’re simply going to skip over them as soon as you start clearing up Mythic dungeons, which will be available at launch?

Might it not have been a better idea to go for the Heroic+ system, rather than crowding pre-raid gearing options with yet another needless addition to the gear treadmill?

Answers on a postcard.

I doubt many are going to avoid Heroics all together, you'll want to hit 825-830 before you start doing Mythics and running heroics is still going to be the msot efficient way of getting there. Once you hit max lvl you'll be around ilvl 800 and youll do world quests until you reach 810. At that point you'll do a combination of World Quests and heroics to get you up to 825 which seems to be the floor for mythic dungeons. However, you'll still want to do the daily heroic for the AP rewards. So they're not pointless, their role is just like normal modes from TBC or early WOTLK but instead of being limited to just the 3 or so end game normals, you have a pool of 8 heroics. Mythic is more like Heroics from that era and mythic+ is an additional layer that allows for a degree of 5man progression that the game has never had.