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  1. #1
    Field Marshal Mouzon's Avatar
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    Advice on Weapon DPS vs Ability Increases

    Wondering if I can get some advice on my D3 Barb. I'm really not good at theorycrafting in D3 and just like to play for fun so I find it hard to make decisions on gear.

    I've linked to a screenshot of a new weapon I found and adjusted the stats on that has clearly far better damage / toughness / recovery for my character, but I'm not sure if it's actually better than the one I currently have because of the advantage the Gavel gives me for Hammer of the Ancients.

    Is the new weapon that much better that I should be equipping it and changing some of my abilities around it? Or should I be keeping the Gavel and just waiting for a better Gavel to drop?

    Also, any advice or ability changes that you can see for my character otherwise would be so helpful! At the moment I'm doing T7 and a bit of T8 rifts and finding that I'm dying more than I probably should, but just getting through.

    Screenshot to new weapon: http://imgur.com/lRIEoFf

    Armory: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/M.../hero/48915786

    Thanks so much.

  2. #2
    I mean you are pretty much gonna have to change builds if you want to swap weapons and tbh thats not a weapon you can really use in any build its basically worthless.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    I mean you are pretty much gonna have to change builds if you want to swap weapons and tbh thats not a weapon you can really use in any build its basically worthless.
    Basically this. Ancient weapon is the biggest dps increase you can get via raw stats, but the fact is that for an HotA build the gavel is mandatory.

    You could swap builds if you dropped a specific build-related weapon, but that's not the case.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    I mean you are pretty much gonna have to change builds if you want to swap weapons and tbh thats not a weapon you can really use in any build its basically worthless.
    This. Any weapon that works with your specific talents is always the BiS.

    Go look at the leaderboards for Warriors, and see what they're using. if the Zweihander is there, use it.

  5. #5
    Sadly its how the game works. There isn't a lot of choices. Most choices are determined by what buffs X build or what allows you to go to X build. Then there is just the fact that there is only a few viable builds for anything challenging.

    Maybe some day we will get more, but that sure won't be in D3.

  6. #6
    Is the comparison with gems included or without them? Because for some reason you have a diamond in the Gavel and it doesn't show in comparison including gems, skewing the numbers.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Maybe some day we will get more, but that sure won't be in D3.
    Yeah, it would require a complete itemization overhaul, sets in first place (they need to go as in current implementation).
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  8. #8
    Field Marshal Mouzon's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I thought that might be the case. When I change the gem in the gavel to a green one it actually does close the damage gap quite a bit. After a bit of playing around last night I can see that it really is the case that the build is pretty much reliant on that gavel! Hopefully a better version of it drops in the future

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Yeah, it would require a complete itemization overhaul, sets in first place (they need to go as in current implementation).
    I really do hope we get some big shit on D3/Diablo Universe stuff at Blizzcon after last years literal nothing. I really like playing the game, but it just keeps getting worse imo.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    I really do hope we get some big shit on D3/Diablo Universe stuff at Blizzcon after last years literal nothing. I really like playing the game, but it just keeps getting worse imo.
    Actually, it's not getting worse. It's not getting anything at all - new builds and stuff are fun but once you have played 6 seasons doing the same stuff over and over the novelty falls down pretty fast.

    New act/new classes/new sets are all nice things everyone wants to have and will be good for the game.

    However: biggest issues (which i don't know how to actually solve, but i have some ideas) are "simply" two.
    Fiirst is Paragon and everyone knows why. Mandatory boring grind for ladder people and useless for everyone else. It should be a "infinite progression" tool but it simply isn't because there is no reason at all to farm Paragon, until you run ladders. Beating a dead horse here i suppose.

    Second is itemization and especially sets. No build freedom, next to non-existant item hunt, crutches over crutches to make unused skills better which always end in such skills still be left in the dust because sets don't support them, until a magic LoN combo happens that destroys everything else. LoN has been introduced exactly to combat the staleness of having very few viable builds, but it ended providing exactly 1 build, due to not enough legendaries available and missing synergies.
    However, the issue is deeper here. TL;DR: sets and items in general should support your build. Instead we have items that define builds, so no set = no build.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    However, the issue is deeper here. TL;DR: sets and items in general should support your build. Instead we have items that define builds, so no set = no build.
    Totally agree in every way.

    Paragon has obviously been an issue since Season 4+

    Before then it really wasn't because Trials kinda stopped people from just farming exp like crazy.

    Granted basically killing noboss runs with more than 50% of the exp from a rift from the turnin now helps, but still paragon is obviously an issue.

    Builds and sets have been basically ruined from the get go sadly. Granted I loved how most classes played in S1-3, but so on its just gotten worse.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Totally agree in every way.

    Paragon has obviously been an issue since Season 4+

    Before then it really wasn't because Trials kinda stopped people from just farming exp like crazy.

    Granted basically killing noboss runs with more than 50% of the exp from a rift from the turnin now helps, but still paragon is obviously an issue.

    Builds and sets have been basically ruined from the get go sadly. Granted I loved how most classes played in S1-3, but so on its just gotten worse.
    I think it's just a consqeunce. First seasons everyone was adjusting themselves to the new system, which got consolidated only later on. After that only thing that sensibly changed were multipliers on already known sets plus some rework which had already some tested and working builds to compare to.

    Add to this the power creep and always higher multipliers, you end with current situation.

    I have to be honest: most things don't affect me because i simply don't care. Once my journey is done, i'm happy. This said, i like current journey structure - i don't want it to be longer or more difficult. I just want (and think would be better for the game) to have something else to do after journey is completed, and it doesn't involve ladders.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    I think it's just a consqeunce. First seasons everyone was adjusting themselves to the new system, which got consolidated only later on. After that only thing that sensibly changed were multipliers on already known sets plus some rework which had already some tested and working builds to compare to.

    Add to this the power creep and always higher multipliers, you end with current situation.

    I have to be honest: most things don't affect me because i simply don't care. Once my journey is done, i'm happy. This said, i like current journey structure - i don't want it to be longer or more difficult. I just want (and think would be better for the game) to have something else to do after journey is completed, and it doesn't involve ladders.
    Ya for sure. TBH for me outside the Paragon issue. My main gripe with the game is how stupidly the variance between one GR to another is. Map and Mobs need to be fixed majorly. Having 1-3 maps and 1-2 mob types viable isn't right. When you literally can't do a rift on GR 90 but you can do a map/mob type you want on 105 isn't right.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Ya for sure. TBH for me outside the Paragon issue. My main gripe with the game is how stupidly the variance between one GR to another is. Map and Mobs need to be fixed majorly. Having 1-3 maps and 1-2 mob types viable isn't right. When you literally can't do a rift on GR 90 but you can do a map/mob type you want on 105 isn't right.
    Oh yeah that's another gripe. I don't run super high GR, but even at 75 the issue is present. I mean, you go from barely finishing it to do a 7 minutes clear. Too much disparity and doesn't actually reflect what the build can do - it's just fishing to have enough mobs stacked in the same place and aoe them down.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Oh yeah that's another gripe. I don't run super high GR, but even at 75 the issue is present. I mean, you go from barely finishing it to do a 7 minutes clear. Too much disparity and doesn't actually reflect what the build can do - it's just fishing to have enough mobs stacked in the same place and aoe them down.
    Ya density needs to be increase almost 10fold on some maps and reduced on others.... then comes monster type which makes some literally garbage. I don't know why some types have mobs actually worth .01 and have it be 50% of the density in a rift. It is literally the worst logic ever. And those maps generally have shit density to begin with which also makes no sense.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    Ya density needs to be increase almost 10fold on some maps and reduced on others.... then comes monster type which makes some literally garbage. I don't know why some types have mobs actually worth .01 and have it be 50% of the density in a rift. It is literally the worst logic ever. And those maps generally have shit density to begin with which also makes no sense.
    Well, i was actually digging through the Warpath list and the mob composition is not exactly an issue - or at least is more complicated since compositions and spawnable groups are prettty damn well balanced. The problem is that some maps has certain sapwns/density and how these groups spawn may close or break the deal.

    Density needs definitely to be streamlined with a simple #mobs/area fixed ratio, or better #points worth of mobs/area. So be them 3 unburied or 18695186519 fallen every area has the same points inside it - the problem are smaller caves which may have not enough space for all mobs to spawn, but could be prevented with the "big room" tiles where you spawn the needed monsters to fix the ratio.

    To me it sounds silly that big, open areas are actually faster to clear than smaller maps.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Second is itemization and especially sets. No build freedom, next to non-existant item hunt, crutches over crutches to make unused skills better which always end in such skills still be left in the dust because sets don't support them, until a magic LoN combo happens that destroys everything else. LoN has been introduced exactly to combat the staleness of having very few viable builds, but it ended providing exactly 1 build, due to not enough legendaries available and missing synergies.
    However, the issue is deeper here. TL;DR: sets and items in general should support your build. Instead we have items that define builds, so no set = no build.
    Yep. I really like the lower level game, where you can try talents and combos of talents, and not be completely useless. I don't know what level that ends at, but for my DH it was around T7 that I had to go look at what others were doing to get past that. I really dislike cookie cutter building, but if you don't - don't bother trying to get further, until you have gobs and gobs of paragon, and can simply power past weaknesses.

    I've often said one of the better points of D3 was the abilty to mix/match talents, but that was back when I hadnt really tried pushing Torment or Rifts. It all funnels to an endless list of players on the ladders with almost identical builds and gear.

    If they broke set bonuses that are baked into Sets and put them into legendary gems - that I think would be a solid change for the better. Wear what you want - boost your talents through gems.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadzooks View Post
    Yep. I really like the lower level game, where you can try talents and combos of talents, and not be completely useless. I don't know what level that ends at, but for my DH it was around T7 that I had to go look at what others were doing to get past that. I really dislike cookie cutter building, but if you don't - don't bother trying to get further, until you have gobs and gobs of paragon, and can simply power past weaknesses.

    I've often said one of the better points of D3 was the abilty to mix/match talents, but that was back when I hadnt really tried pushing Torment or Rifts. It all funnels to an endless list of players on the ladders with almost identical builds and gear.

    If they broke set bonuses that are baked into Sets and put them into legendary gems - that I think would be a solid change for the better. Wear what you want - boost your talents through gems.
    That's why i like the Journey - i can do it with a build i like. I really hope this never changes.

    Another thing to fix? Make Story mode and Bounties relevant again. I'm really tired of GRs being the end of all content, for XP, gold and drops.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    That's why i like the Journey - i can do it with a build i like. I really hope this never changes.

    Another thing to fix? Make Story mode and Bounties relevant again. I'm really tired of GRs being the end of all content, for XP, gold and drops.
    Bounties need to give GR key per bag or something as well. Bounties should also give something like 2x more shit. GR should be for Leg Gems and greater exp, Bounties for targeted rerolls on gear + some GR keys + minimal exp and T10/T13 w/e should be lots of legendaries and lots of GR keys with average exp.

    As for story mode.. idk. Its actually more predictable than GR and Reg rifts but I am down with making bounties not actual ass cancer that literally requires other ppl to finish them for you otherwise you are better off just spamming GRs.

    I wonder when they will realize they need to focus on Solo being better with groups just being stronger at getting more bounties and GR keys because of speed. As for GRs they need to normalize gems or something to a point. So pure solo player vs group players can keep the same level gems.

    Even if you keep EXP out of GRs legendary gems are easily multiple tiers of rifts when you compare a solo player with like 95s or w/e and group player with 120+. Gems will get even worse if no boss runs get removed having people 1% upgrade all season.

    I am fine with group and solo and 2s and 3s w/e people want to do, but they need to find a way to make them all relatively equal power outside paragon farming because idgaf about that you can get R1 being 1k behind its been done every season by many people. They just need to make it so someone who is within that paragon range but just is 20 levels behind on legendary gems because hes solo just can't have a fighting chance.

    Tbh I have no fucking clue what they could do for that tbh without making seasons that are solo only vs groups which won't happen.
    Last edited by Jellospally; 2016-06-25 at 03:17 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jellospally View Post
    -snip-
    Agree with mostly everything; just two things i have a different opinion on:

    - solo vs party is always a lost battle. It's not like they didn't try before, but in Vanilla there was the opposite situation where grouping was just detrimental and everyone played solo 100% of the time. So we've been also in the opposite situation and it wasn't fun or good anyway.
    My idea? Split the leaderboards. Just put a "solo/self-found character" tick at creation which is like Seasonal/HC and it just disables all grouping tools. It's the only real way to keep a truly solo competition alive and relevant - and it's a player's choice. Do you want to compete in both ladders? Two characters my son, and you need to invest time on both.
    The problem is not only the power advantage, but the fact the time invested on 4man ladders actually is the optimal way to also compete in solo, which sounds pretty crap to me.

    - XP should be taken out from GRs, end of story. They already have a meaning - legendary gems - so i don't see how making them the best XP source is good. Best source of XP should be bounties imho. I'm actually also pro-removing normal rifts tbh since with current situation you run some uberfast for keys never looting anything so you can do actually meaningful content in GRs. (EDIT: i mean GRs no more best xp source - this way people will have to do different things to achieve different rewards which to me looks pretty basic and straightforward)
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

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