BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Slant]

But then again, imagine the shitstorm if the EU involved itself certain parts of the education of EU member's.

Education is a national subject and the Eu doesn't take part of it, it comes down to failure of governments for when they don't educate people properly.

The EU never does anything itself. It tells member states to do the actual doing. Any the member states are shite at educating about the EU. So yes, you're right but I'm also right. The point is, people don't understand the EU because nobody tells them about it.

[caervek]

Why does it take so long?

In denmark we have parliament results in 3-3,5 hours and referendums in less than 2 hours, after the pollin stations close..

You have less than 1/10th our population, and better organisational skills

[DarkAmbient]

I saw a report last night on Channel 4 that quoted a government Remainer who said that the postal Leave vote was "horrifying". I'm not sure how he could have known this already, seeing as the votes shouldn't have been opened yet.

[Deleted]

Oh boy are you going to be in for a harsh wake up call...

No really fear is used to control people and they used it to sway the vote to the remain other people use this tactics its nothing new. The eu is fragile and is still in risk of sinking if a shock to the markets happen like a brexit as the eu det has only went up not down since the crash. Trade deals for the most part will be settle asap as not doing so out of spite isnt very smart as it cost other nations as much as it costs ares.

[Slant]

Why does it take so long?

In denmark we have parliament results in 3-3,5 hours and referendums in less than 2 hours, after the pollin stations close..
And don't day, bigger countries takes longer to count, because it only matters how many votes per polling station, not total votes..

Those are projections, not official results.

[DarkAmbient]

What about Boris the hate filled honey monster comparing the eu to the nazis? That one ok?

Give me a direct quote and I'll have a look.

[Slant]

No really fear is used to control people and they used it to sway the vote to the remain other people use this tactics its nothing new. The eu is fragile and is still in risk of sinking if a shock to the markets happen like a brexit as the eu det has only went up not down since the crash. Trade deals for the most part will be settle asap as not doing so out of spite isnt very smart as it cost other nations as much as it costs ares.

Um, here's the current sentiment among other EU member states: No more freebies for the UK, no rebate, no being nice. That is what you hear in every continental European capital. These negotiations that you want settled "asap as not doing so out of spite isn't very smart"? Those are going to take a very fucking long time, because you'll learn how it feels like to negotiate with the EU as a third country, that is no special deals, no being nice about it. You'll have to offer something. And the UK on its own has very little to offer except... some imaginary trade potential that, honestly... many do not see as prominently as the British do. Turns out, much of the "trading" you do is just passing through from other countries who use you as an access point to our single market.

Why... don't we just trade with them directly and cut the middle man out? Seems much smarter than bending over just to let you have a cut.

[fernotao]

leave is ahead i believe

[FuxieDK]

You have less than 1/10th our population, and better organisational skills

As I wrote, population size is not relevant, as a country with 10x the population, must be expected to also have 10x the amount of polling stations, which means, the same amount of votes per polling station...

[Pua]

The EU never does anything itself. It tells member states to do the actual doing. Any the member states are shite at educating about the EU. So yes, you're right but I'm also right. The point is, people don't understand the EU because nobody tells them about it.

When I first joined the military, one of my seniors told me that the chain of command worked like the EU. The management (EU) tells you what to do, but the sailors (nations) decide how it's done.

That's what makes the Greek situation so challenging for someone like me. The nation was not allowed to do what its people wanted, and was forced into doing the opposite because of (largely) the German Finance Minister. It hinted that the EU had fundamentally changed from what it was erstwhile designed to do, and made it largely impossible to support.

[FuxieDK]

Those are projections, not official results.

Yes they are..

Last year, for parliament election, all votes were counted at 23:17... Polling stations close at 20:00... And it was a very standard election...

[caervek]

As I wrote, population size is not relevant, as a country with 10x the population, must be expected to also have 10x the amount of polling stations, which means, the same amount of votes per polling station...

It increases the amount of organisation required, and magnifies delays caused by poor organisation :P

[Shalcker]

It would actually leave its influence pretty much immediately. What, do you think the EU is going to let a member on its way out influence decisions that reach beyond its membership? No man, that's not going to fly.

Which influence beyond that granted by membership are you talking about? :/

While they are member obviously they influence every decision that affects every member.

[caervek]

leave is ahead i believe

Nice to hear, but it's still a random guess lol.

[Slant]

When I first joined the military, one of my seniors told me that the chain of command worked like the EU. The management (EU) tells you what to do, but the sailors (nations) decide how it's done.

That's what makes the Greek situation so challenging for someone like me. The nation was not allowed to do what its people wanted, and was forced into doing the opposite because of (largely) the German Finance Minister. It hinted that the EU had fundamentally changed from what it was erstwhile designed to do, and made it largely impossible to support.

Hum, it's a bit different than that. Greece always had the choice. The choice was simply, not comply and crash, or comply and deal with it. They're human beings, if they want to fuck themselves, that's okay. But as long as Germany fires billions of Euros up their arse, they'll take the conditions that we set. They can always refuse the money. This is where your analogy fails, btw.

See, it's not Germany that got them into the mess. It's the Greeks themselves that dug that hole. Germany is just trying to get them out of it, but they'll have to do the actual climbing themselves. All we can do is lend a hand. And we'll make damn sure Greece isn't pulling us down into that hole with them, that'll help nobody.

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Yes they are..

Last year, for parliament election, all votes were counted at 23:17... Polling stations close at 20:00... And it was a very standard election...

Newsreport say there are no projections, because this is a unique case and there are no past referendums to compare this to. Translations: They simply have no clue how it's looking until very, very late.

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Which influence beyond that granted by membership are you talking about? :/

While they are member obviously they influence every decision that affects every member.

Go back to your Putinista circlejerk thread and don't even try to discuss democracy when you clearly don't understand it.

[Mace]

Dom't remember.. It's probably 20+ years old..

it seems to update your toons cos I see level 100 and 97 etc.

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It's funny you should say that, because the way some people go on about why they're voting Brexit to "make the country great again" and "show everyone who's boss" is the same way that Hitler went about starting WW2 because of the Treaty of Versailles etc etc.

I think the point there is that, at least you can decide whether you want them or not if it's this country. Not saying our democracy is perfect, but it's a lot easier to influence and change - the people can decide the change for themselves - that's the bottom line for me Topaz.

[FuxieDK]

It increases the amount of organisation required, and magnifies delays caused by poor organisation :P

Example:
1000 polling stations, with 1000 votes each OR 10.000 polling stations with 1000 votes each.

Each PS is roughly the same amount of time to count their 1000 votes.
Each PS reports in, their numbers..

Tell me, how does 10.000 PS takes longer than 1000 PS? The computer will either use 1/1.000.000.000 of a second to calculatemthe result or 1/100.000.000 of a second... Will you ever notice the difference?

[caervek]

I don't see why the European forum members are sulking about the UK wanting to leave anyway, if it does turn out that all the doom/gloom predictions are true then the UK will probably re-apply for membership in 20 years time and be much more humble about it, so it's win/win for them.

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Example:
1000 polling stations, with 1000 votes each OR 10.000 polling stations with 1000 votes each.

Each PS is roughly the same amount of time to count their 1000 votes.
Each PS reports in, their numbers..

Tell me, how does 10.000 PS takes longer than 1000 PS? The computer will either use 1/1.000.000.000 of a second to calculatemthe result or 1/100.000.000 of a second... Will you ever notice the difference?

Computer?

I think we may have found a reason you guys can do it quicker lol.

[Deleted]

Um, here's the current sentiment among other EU member states: No more freebies for the UK, no rebate, no being nice. That is what you hear in every continental European capital. These negotiations that you want settled "asap as not doing so out of spite isn't very smart"? Those are going to take a very fucking long time, because you'll learn how it feels like to negotiate with the EU as a third country, that is no special deals, no being nice about it. You'll have to offer something. And the UK on its own has very little to offer except... some imaginary trade potential that, honestly... many do not see as prominently as the British do. Turns out, much of the "trading" you do is just passing through from other countries who use you as an access point to our single market.

Why... don't we just trade with them directly and cut the middle man out? Seems much smarter than bending over just to let you have a cut.

Firstly the uk pays more into the eu than we get out of it so i dont get why you say we get freebies where as the french farmers get unfair subsidies and the spanish get to fish in are waters that limits how much we can fish. Those special deals arnt that special other countries have special relationships out of the eu that have a much smaller economy that the uk. Also the uk imports alot more goods than in exports to the eu so its the eu that will be loosing more money through trade than the uk. The sentiment from the eu has always been the same we are the outsides and we got over it along time ago but your have forgotten there are many many other eu countries that have did polls to suggest if the uk leaves they want a vote to so look up you facts on that instead of using your own feelings

[Slant]

Example:
1000 polling stations, with 1000 votes each OR 10.000 polling stations with 1000 votes each.

Each PS is roughly the same amount of time to count their 1000 votes.
Each PS reports in, their numbers..

Tell me, how does 10.000 PS takes longer than 1000 PS? The computer will either use 1/1.000.000.000 of a second to calculatemthe result or 1/100.000.000 of a second... Will you ever notice the difference?

A referendum with 46 million ballots is hardly a computer game. You're simplifying the issue a bit too much. Shit costs money and a referendum like this costs a lot of money. Add that current storms in southern England provide logistical difficulties. Heck, voters can barely get to the polling stations because of floods in some parts.