How should heirlooms be tuned to make levelling less insane?

[deadman1]

No, that's not an opinion; that's a statement on the issue that's directly from the mouth of Blizzard. The heirlooms were put into the game to remove the tediousness of acquiring new gear, and the XP perks were, along with the XP reductions, added to aid in the leveling process - as their goal was to get everyone to the endgame/current content. Apparently, Blizzard agrees that - since this negated a large segment of their content as well as alienated a large segment of the population that enjoys the journey over the endgame reward - this was a bad move.

Source please, either way they would have changed it if they felt that way, not added more (rings etc in wod.)

[Twistedelmo]

No, that's not an opinion; that's a statement on the issue that's directly from the mouth of Blizzard. The heirlooms were put into the game to remove the tediousness of acquiring new gear, and the XP perks were, along with the XP reductions, added to aid in the leveling process - as their goal was to get everyone to the endgame/current content. Apparently, Blizzard agrees that - since this negated a large segment of their content as well as alienated a large segment of the population that enjoys the journey over the endgame reward - this was a bad move.

not to mention it takes out the balance of low level Pvp, yea it's great when you can one shot other players but for new players i can just see it scaring them to think what max level pvp will be like.

[Deadite]

Therefore, the problem with heirlooms goes far beyond "don't use them if you don't like them." They affect everybody who plays, even (and especially) if somebody chooses not to use them, or doesn't have them.

Not really. If everyone else has them you face roll the dungeon anyways. The last toon i leveled was a mage. Even tho i had full looms and enchants i hardly got a hit in anyways. I was basically running behind every one and hoovering up loot. I was just window dressing in 99% of dungeon runs. If you choose not to use them no one will notice.

PvP i will agree with but the low level Bgs have always been twink city.

[Hexxidecimal]

Do we even play the same game? Leveling is so streamlined and so mind-numbingly easy that it's fast as shit for everyone. There are no "best quests" or "best zones", everything is on rails and everything is equally overpaced. You outlevel zones after doing a handful of quests in them and you outlevel zones by doing a SINGLE FUCKING DUNGEON in that level range. It doesn't matter if you have heirlooms or not, it's an undertuned mess of a pacing, although looms definitely contribute to the problem.

And please stop coming up with the mythical "new players". Leveling is shit for everyone - veteran or not. There's no "skill" or "knowledge" involved when you're twoshotting every mob on the way to 100. And before someone states "but I like current leveling": no, you don't like leveling. You like to get to max level as fast and easy as possible. That's not the same. But there are still people who like the adventure - and there are more of us than you think.

As I've stated before - heirlooms are only part of the leveling problem. And no, they are not "optional". They are not exclusive goods anymore - they're available to everyone except a small group of players who have just started playing. Almost everyone run around in heirlooms. By not using them you're heavily gimping your character in PvP and group PvE. They would be optional if they only provided bonus experience.

Your post if confusing and contradictory, at least partially. You say leveling is too fast, even without heirlooms. Okay I am more than willing to accept that. I have never leveled without them so this could be very true. But when the argument is that they are "optional" you claim they gimp you too much? So you want leveling, specifically killing to be slower, but you don't actually want to kill things slower by not using heirlooms? For PvP, well you are correct. You will be gimped in PvP and if you are doing a lot of that while leveling I understand the frustration. However it seems to be your idea of things just getting two shot and being super easy is at odds with your later assessment that not using heirlooms (something that despite your claims is ENTIRELY optional, period) "gimps you". If you are referring to LFG specifically then I can understand where you never get to "experience" the dungeon because players are over tuned at those levels, an issue exacerbated by heirlooms. Not sure why you personally are worried about "being gimped" in that situation though, it's precisely what you are asking for. Or more specifically an experience that isn't walk in face roll, move on etc. I can see where it's impossible to enjoy a dungeon if everyone else is wearing heirlooms though. Again that is a problem with other people wearing them, not you.

I have recently back to back leveled three toons from 1 to 100 in preparation for legion. By recently I mean I have done it back to back and am currently working on my 4th. I see a LOAD of people enter instances without heirlooms. Do they do good damage? No, of course not. But they are never kicked or berated. So if that is you, yes you will do less damage but as you said that is basically what you want then whats the issue? If the issue is that everyone else is using them and so ruining your dungeon experience you should be a bit more explicit then. Different issue at that point, different solutions.

[HuxNeva]

Leveling is suffering. I like it to be sped up as much as possible. If you don't want to level quickly, save your gold by not purchasing heirlooms.

So we must optimize the experience for those that do not want to play it? right.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Heirlooms are not the problem. A skilled player who is a veteran is. A new player wont have heirlooms or the skill that makes leveling "insane". They wont have the knowledge and experience to do the Best of the Best quests and best zone to level in. Leveling is fine. Its the players that are the issue. Their skill and knowledge are what makes the leveling process less challenging. A new player will struggle all the same.

Indeed. And veterans are always free to just not use heirlooms. Easiest thing.

[Imnick]

I think they should keep the exp bonuses but lose the insane stats.
Make them convenient in that they save time questing and finding new gear, but not make you hugely more powerful than someone wearing standard gear for that level.

I don't think the exp bonuses are an issue. If you don't want to level fast, don't use them.
It's the effect their stats have on dungeons that is a problem.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Other: They should just get rid of Heirloom gear, if anything make it low level transmog gear or a passive buff that increases XP%

Gear was a lot more rewarding leveling up when it dropped off random mobs or dungeon bosses. Since you can get the off pieces from the dungeon satchels it completely takes away the joy of winning a roll on something you can use.

As someone that's leveled 33 chars to 100, I can't say I've felt "rewarded" by leveling gear in...7 years.
People that have the need to feel "rewarded", can just not equip heirlooms. No need changing them (they were reworked with WoD) because SOME people can't choose for themselves how to play...

If anything, I'd like for them to make a full set of the Heirlooms so my characters can always be transmogged as I please.

And for new players, whom are still new to the game, I'm sure questing gear feels plenty rewarding. They sure need on everything in sight.

[Imnick]

So we must optimize the experience for those that do not want to play it? right.

That is literally what heirlooms are for, yes. They are items for people who want to level faster.
This is their intended purpose, and has been since they were introduced.

[Rotted]

Make it a single item which cant be upgraded / sold / deleted / equipped, but can be turned off. Based on your current achievements etc it should give you x amount of exp %

I don't like it being equip-able gear, it was the final nail in the coffin for twinks and it sucks donkey dick for new players to the game in pvp. Seriously, go find a friend who hasn't played before, let him level to 11, then send him in wsg see how much fun he has

[Jademist]

Indeed. And veterans are always free to just not use heirlooms. Easiest thing.

People don't understand this. I don't understand how they don't understand this. Heirlooms are 100% optional. I am playing through the game right now on a warrior alt that has 0 heirlooms just because I wanted to experience the game again not being rushed to 100. I have found that leveling is fine. The tweaks Blizzard is making is going to make it a bit better in pacing.

The biggest issue is when running dungeons veteran players practically spit at you if you don't have heirlooms. Not all, but a lot of them do.

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Make it a single item which cant be upgraded / sold / deleted / equipped, but can be turned off. Based on your current achievements etc it should give you x amount of exp %

I don't like it being equip-able gear, it was the final nail in the coffin for twinks and it sucks donkey dick for new players to the game in pvp. Seriously, go find a friend who hasn't played before, let him level to 11, then send him in wsg see how much fun he has

PvP is like that anyways even at max level for people trying to dip their toes into PvP for the first time. New players will get wrecked by players who have significantly better gear at 100.

[Rotted]

People don't understand this. I don't understand how they don't understand this. Heirlooms are 100% optional. I am playing through the game right now on a warrior alt that has 0 heirlooms just because I wanted to experience the game again not being rushed to 100. I have found that leveling is fine. The tweaks Blizzard is making is going to make it a bit better in pacing.

The biggest issue is when running dungeons veteran players practically spit at you if you don't have heirlooms. Not all, but a lot of them do.

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PvP is like that anyways even at max level for people trying to dip their toes into PvP for the first time. New players will get wrecked by players who have significantly better gear, heirlooms or conquest armor at 100.

Except you have a better chance at 100, exp and know what to expect, even if you are a new player. But imagine being brand new, they can easily hit 11 in less than a hour, they try out the BG, instant dead, seconds later spawning, instant dead,

[fooliuscaesar13]

I kind of wish they'd remove Heirlooms but give you an XP bonus toggle that you could flip. That way, gear is relevant leveling up and you can adjust your XP leveling bonus.
Easier said than done, but that's how I'd switch the heirloom system...but that's because I like the xp bonus but hate how OP the gear is.

[Deleted]

Heirlooms will be perfectly fine once they implement zone scaling in the old world.

[Twistedelmo]

The biggest issue is when running dungeons veteran players practically spit at you if you don't have heirlooms. Not all, but a lot of them do.

I can agree on this since i've been in parties where they wanted to kick the Healer or tank because they are in Non-Heirloom gear.

[pvrwizard]

In a recent interview with Jesse Cox, Ion noted that levelling is broken and heirlooms contribute to the problem. Levelling is no longer a barrier to entry every time a new expansion comes out, as each expansion now comes with a free boost. I enjoy collecting the heirlooms and upgrading them, but I agree that they speed levelling way too much (and I enjoy levelling), and they are a little TOO rewarding considering how easy most of them are to get.

What would you do with heirlooms?

leave them exactly as they are. I am not interested in spending $60 for a level boost. if i decide to level a new character it should be my choice if i want to deck them out in heirlooms and do it quickly. I enjoyed leveling the first few times I did it.. now... not so much.

Any major change to how heirlooms work is going to piss a lot of people off that spent gold to acquire/upgrade heirlooms

[Queen of Hamsters]

I can agree on this since i've been in parties where they wanted to kick the Healer or tank because they are in Non-Heirloom gear.

Can honestly say I haven't experienced it once through all my toons leveled.

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leave them exactly as they are. I am not interested in spending $60 for a level boost. if i decide to level a new character it should be my choice if i want to deck them out in heirlooms and do it quickly. I enjoyed leveling the first few times I did it.. now... not so much.

Any major change to how heirlooms work is going to piss a lot of people off that spent gold to acquire/upgrade heirlooms

Indeed. They shouldn't be balancing leveling for the jaded veterans wanting the "new experience"-feel back. It can't be done, and would only alienate those veterans that did leveling 10+ times already...


They could use scaling tech and make an alternate progression path for leveling available to vets however, entirely optional and kindred to the Iron Man challenge.

[Twistedelmo]

Can honestly say I haven't experienced it once through all my toons leveled.

Doesn't happen often but they usually wait till they fuck up once and start using the lack of heirloom gear as the reason to kick.

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Indeed. They shouldn't be balancing leveling for the jaded veterans wanting the "new experience"-feel back. It can't be done, and would only alienate those veterans that did leveling 10+ times already...


They could use scaling tech and make an alternate progression path for leveling available to vets however, entirely optional and kindred to the Iron Man challenge.

I wouldn't mind them rolling out with a hardcore version of leveling. you die once and thats it.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Doesn't happen often but they usually wait till they fuck up once and start using the lack of heirloom gear as the reason to kick.

Seen plenty of heirloomed tanks/healers get flack for just playing badly. Latest being a Brewmaster monk that didn't use a single one of his defensive abilities, yet bitched about losing health...fully heirloomed, was kicked over the non-heirloomed healer for being a shit player.

[Hexxidecimal]

i don't think its really an option.

most people who play alts want to get max ASAP. What is the Quickest way? Experience Multipliers, Heirlooms, Rest Experience, RaF and the XP Elixer, a combination of these will get your alt to max in no time. So in the end everyone is going to use heirlooms.

How ever it does get boring wearing the same gear till like level 85?

It is an option. The thing to remember here is that just because you don't like the option or find it undesirable that it is still an option. The issue here is that you have a number of groups of people and it is difficult (though not impossible) to make them all happy. You have people like me, who simply want to level as fast as possible and don't care about what gear I wear as I level up. I generally spend more time at 90-100 than I do from 1-90 currently and I get plenty of gear swapping in there ( because I don't bother with upgrading my heirlooms to 100). Then your camp wants fast leveling (or so I am assuming from your post) but would like the ability to be excited about loot drops on the way up. Personally the leveling experience is so fast currently that the constant gear switching would outright annoy me, but that's me. Then you have the purist camp who think it's too fast (and maybe feel the same about loot drops) who just want to enjoy the pleasure and adventure of leveling. Experiencing all the story and content WoW has had to offer previous to the current expansion.

So we are left with a number of issues. Slowing leveling down would upset as many if not more people than those who wish it to be slower (even without heirlooms). Or providing the same xp bonuses you can currently get via buffs or potions without providing the nearly always BiS gear that heirlooms provide on the way up. But now you have a ton of people who are upset and annoyed about having to constantly manage gear and the experience is still somewhat slowed by gear quality being lower in general. Then you have the current situation where quick leveling and xp bonuses completely devalue old content and make it less enjoyable to experience.

I think an interesting option would be to offer a opt in service where heirlooms aren't allowed and a re-balancing of numbers is done to provide an interesting and engaging leveling experience for those that want that. Almost like another server or something. Kinda like how the tech works for inviting those from other servers to your party so now they exist on your server. You will level up on that server under those settings till you reach max level (or current content or whatever) and they you finish up by playing on live servers.

The downsides to this being that queues for dungeons and PvP would ultimately be slower for both parities.