BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Crispin]

Does the scenario of scotland leaving the uk and rejoining the EU seem likely, incase it ends with a brexit?

[ati87]

Why are we paying taxes to the EU in the first place? Why can't we spend all OUR money on OUR roads and OUR NHS?

Your paying into a system, do you also complain tax money going to schools when you don't have children?

[Deleted]

Does the scenario of scotland leaving the uk and rejoining the EU seem likely, incase it ends with a brexit?

Very likely.

Scotland needs the EU's money more than it needs Westminsters.

[Lord Berserker]

Because you gain access to a whole lot more, but hey half truths is the exit camp forte. If everyone is stronger in the EU zone everyone benefits from this situation financially.

I'll laugh hard when they leave and you lot realize regarding immigration, still have to follow EU regulations if you want free traffic of workers in the EU zone. Same with export to EU which is let us not forget the largest globally. Maybe second largest with the UK gone didn't do the math. Not even going to mention that all policies currently on going are beneficial to the UK regardless of what ever fool claims otherwise.

Other G8 nations have already told the UK that they can't bet on every trade deal simply remaining and regarding the TTIP, you are no longer as relevant.

God, i hope you guys leave sure both parties take a hit but not as hard as the UK and it will send a strong signal to the rest, who believe populist chest thumping nationalists. Would make my day if it ended up with a Brexit even though my company supplies quite a bit to the UK.

Ah yes, this magic money the EU pays the UK all the time that we never actually see because it doesn't. Please. Stop trying to walk around with your feathers high belgian, you look pathetic.

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Very likely.

Scotland needs the EU's money more than it needs Westminsters.

Also because Scottish independence without England would see Scotland die within 10 years.

I say let them leave, the Shetlands already proved their vote, so no oil for Scotland.

[Acidbaron]

Ah yes, this magic money the EU pays the UK all the time that we never actually see because it doesn't. Please. Stop trying to walk around with your feathers high belgian, you look pathetic.

As usual no counter argument of any basis and merely playing on my nationality as if that would be some sort of weak spot it isn't

Thank you for proving me right, much appreciated. Magic money, look up trade figures unless numbers and figures are scary which i could understand, take note that i'm in favor for a brexit i want you guys out.

[khalltusk]

Boris won't get voted into power either. The tory party won't back him and their entire powerbase will be destroyed, neither will UKIP. Labour however just need to play face, follow the unions, fight for the "free working man" and bang, labour government again.

of course UK politics never move, so we have nothing. getting rid of the NHS would cause riots, so it's a safe bet.

Cause riots perhaps, but the tories have been chipping away at it for some time. The only issue is if we did leave what party or coalition would take over? Labour are a mess frankly, and tories are a no go for me. Lib dems are destroyed. UKIP have quite a bit of support but luckily first past the post fucks them over.

But as i'm moving to the Netherlands later this year, I do worry what the UK will be doing as right now its pretty sweet for me.

[Deleted]

Ah yes, this magic money the EU pays the UK all the time that we never actually see because it doesn't. Please.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/erdf-pro...d-achievements for some examples of one scheme.

[Deleted]

Ah yes, this magic money the EU pays the UK all the time that we never actually see because it doesn't. Please. Stop trying to walk around with your feathers high belgian, you look pathetic.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

The EU pays 4.5 billion back into the UK every year.

[khalltusk]

With the brutal nature of the blue on blue massacre in the past few months and the state of the other political parties in the uk, British politics is on its arse.

It was only a few weeks back I heard one contributor to these boards describe the current state of British politics as a golden era, he couldn't be more wrong.

Golden era for dung beetles i'm sure.

[Lord Berserker]

As usual no counter argument of any basis and merely playing on my nationality as if that would be some sort of weak spot it isn't

Thank you for proving me right, much appreciated. Magic money, look up trade figures unless numbers and figures are scary which i could understand, take note that i'm in favor for a brexit i want you guys out.

You're the one who suddenly brought up chest thumping nationalism. You tell me statistics, I linked an article showing directly the NHS doesn't get it's money back.

So yeah Belgian, I guess statistics and figures ARE hard.

[Deleted]

With the brutal nature of the blue on blue massacre in the past few months and the state of the other political parties in the uk, British politics is on its arse.

It was only a few weeks back I heard one contributor to these boards describe the current state of British politics as a golden era, he couldn't be more wrong.

Politics in Britain have been on there arse for years now, with what people are saying over the pond about Hilary/Trump being a choice of "who do you dislike the least", i've felt like that in British politics since I could first vote a decade ago.

[Lord Berserker]

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

The EU pays 4.5 billion back into the UK every year.

And we paid £13 billion.

So why couldn't we tell the EU to fuck off and just use that £13 billion ourselves?

[Deleted]

They were trying for a joint EU solution, I'm not adverse to a joint EU solution.
Of course, a five year old should be able to realize that the only joint solution that will ever pass is, deport more, accept less -


If all countries were willing to take N, Where N is 40k/Austrian population, there would be something like 2-3 million spots available.
The Austrian offer were generous, they minded the cap, because instituting it will de facto end asylum as a right.
I'm in favor of ending asylum rights - The treaty signed were for the know quantity of refugees after WW2 not as an open ended invitation to everyone.

Thanks for your response.

Do you honestly believe that with this EU such a change is possible? Pretty much all higher ups in the EU are for mass migration and there are no signs of reform.

Schengen has cost the German citizen a lot of money and pain. In my family alone of lost a few thousand to theft. In my city theft and burglary has seen a rise of over 100% thanks to Schengen.

[Mehrunes]

so you know what's been discussed? you know who's deciding what? You know the decisions that are being made and how they reach them right?

Yes? Work of the EP and Council are available to the public. Legislative initiative of the EC is known to the public, including the identity of who submitted them to the EC in the first place.

All you get to know is what they've decided as law. If you're talking about The EU parliament, remember that parliament does not decide anything, it debates things.

"Meanwhile, in pre-Lisbon Treaty world".

You don't see anything that the people with the real power do. The European Council, Council of Ministers, EU commission, all of these are closed meetings - i.e. done in secret, can't get records of their discussions or arguments or on who voted what where, how - just what they have decided

So secret that the Council's job is streamed via a webcam, European Council makes reports from their meetings and European Commission is monitored by European Anti-Fraud Office that reports to the European Parliament. Illuminati are out there!

The point is when your governement barphs, you can kick em out, you hear their discussions and arguments, you have those checks and balances as you vote for your MPs, which you can petition you can actually follow them making your case, if they fail to do so you can replace them. Should you want change as a people your system is designed to do so. I think it cost us a l to get to that, I'm not about to throw it away.

EU has checks and balances too. And you can lobby your MEPs too. You can replace MEPs too.

When the UK was still negotiating its place in the EU having not fully committed and hung the threat of a referendum in front of Europe. As has been shown quite clearly that the UK has no power to get anything it wants anymore that wasn't part of those initial concessions, with its 1 foot in 1 foot out stance, if the UK votes in, it's going to have to fall in line too. And they've not hidden the fact that should the UK choose to stay in it is going to have to fall in line/

EU member state has to play by EU's rules? No waiiiiiiiiiiii.

It's better that you control your own governement you don't need Brussels or Strasbourg to do it for you or tell you what to do. Why stay for that? No thank you.

That's not really answering the quoted part.

The way trading works is that if you want to trade with me, you have to abide by my rules and I have to abide yours, what point you are trying to make doesn't relate here, if the UK wants to trade with the EU it will have to abide by EU laws of that trade whether in or out. THat's not related to you being able to manage your own trade nor does it mean you need to be part of the EU to trade, it's got nothing to do with that, you don't need the EU to trae, and I am not just talking about trading laws. The economy is not the only thing that matters you know.

Again, ask Norway and Switzerland how many of their laws EU has to abide by.

Listen to people, research information yourself, make up your own mind, you don't have to listen to what an expert is saying just because he is an expert, hear what he says and consider it and think about it.

But what they say is also information. Outright rejecting them with "lel, what do the experts know" leads to people who don't know how EU works, scream about how undemocratic it is when it's more democratic than UK, whine about how not transparent it is when the information is out there if you bother to actually look, how UK is no longer independent and/or sovereign even though it's bullshit and so forth.

how would you know, do you know any of the people running the various different bodies in the EU? Are you in their meetings? do you know what they do? where they go? who they see? what they say? waht they believe in?

How do I know that people running the EU aren't Illuminati Reptilian overlords? Because I wasn't dropped on my head when I was little. And unlike you I at least know who they are. I also kinda doubt UK politicians have body cams 24/7.

aww, you make it sound like all trading will cease, sure companies want more profitable markets, but they want markets,.. if people will buy their goods in the Gambia, they'll go and sell in the Gambia because they make more moeny, If Britain leaves the EU, regardless of what politician says, Fujistsu is still going to want to sell its goods in the UK, it's not going to say "oh, Birtian is no longer in the EU, I'm not going to sell their"
Neither would Volkswagon and it's in the EU.

I literally said "some" in the very part you responded with this shitpost. Is even my expectations of literacy misplaced?

Is it easier to fight corruption when you the common folk can vote corrupt governemnts out and install people you trust to positions of responsiblilty or is it easier to do so in a beast like the EU where it's so convoluted, un-elected, and should you want them out because of their rubbish sub-par or corrupt behaviour you have no power to actually change the EU body. Yes, you can vote out your governement, you can't vote out the EU governing bodies. We don't need to be in Brussels to manage our own corruption, we have our system in place, thank you very much which empowers me the citizen to be able to do something about it that I cannot in Brussels.

Worked so well for the UK citizens that the EU had to get involved. Moreover, you can repeat the undemocratic drivel till the day you die, it will remain nothing but drivel. There's nothing particularly convoluted about it either, it's largely modeled after European models of governance. You can actually vote out the EP and the EC by the way. And members of European Council and the Council of European Union on national levels.

the body of legislation and rules for so much, it feels like everything, it's an un-necessary burden and restriction...and why? because some expert in Brussels feels that that is best for me in Britain... no thank you, I can decide in Britain, I don't need Brussels/Strasbourg for that.

But it isn't everything. Your feelings are off. And I'm sure some expert in London is infallible and knows what's best for someone living in Northern Island /s

better to be independent with a tin foil hat than to be subject under that anyway.

Then I guess it's swell that UK is independent. The more you know.

Churchill was bred you know, dont' count on a other Churchill's not arising, as long as people are willing to stand up for their rights. You can't kill hope.

That's a relief to hear. Good to know the valiant UK citizens will rise up against the Reptilian Fourth Reich and defend the world from its vile mind control.

They don't need to be a part of the EU, they are losing too much being so, too much power that belongs to the people are being signed over, I say, take it back. if you have a choice, use it to ensure theat your decsisions are in your hands, not someone elses you don't have any say over.

How is that relevant to me pointing out that your point about countries giving up their sovereignty is nonsense?

[Dizzeeyooo]

You tell me statistics, I linked an article showing directly the NHS doesn't get it's money back

you linked an article showing that UK governments have been incredibly lax at claiming money back that they are entitled to - why is that an issue with the EU?

the NHS is paying medical fees for UK citizens that are living in other European countries, and our governments have chosen to be less efficient in claiming that money back (as they have every right to) compared to other European governments

[Mehrunes]

I love this argument - The UK has lost its sovereignty because the EU overrules it 2% of the time / The EU is shit, because they care about what individual member states want!

Down with Romania's tyranny!

[Kalis]

Politics in Britain have been on there arse for years now, with what people are saying over the pond about Hilary/Trump being a choice of "who do you dislike the least", i've felt like that in British politics since I could first vote a decade ago.

Labour under Blair and Conservatives under Thatcher many people wanted to vote for, Major and Cameron were more a case of people voting for the one they disliked least.

Brown we obviously did not vote in and have tried to scrub from our collective memory.

[Lord Berserker]

you linked an article showing that UK governments have been incredibly lax at claiming money back that they are entitled to - why is that an issue with the EU?

the NHS is paying medical fees for UK citizens that are living in other European countries, and our government's have chosen to be less efficient in claiming that money back (as they have every right to) compared to other European governments

Right. Or the EU countries just don't pay us the money back because they're anti-UK.

As Helden pointed out though quite easily.

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-m...ee-55-million/

Shows we still pay £8,5 billion for literally nothing. Sorry, we're paying for Germans to import more barbarians.

[caervek]

Labour under Blair and Conservatives under Thatcher many people wanted to vote for, Major and Cameron were more a case of people voting for the one they disliked least.

Brown we obviously did not vote in and have tried to scrub from our collective memory.

In fairness, replacing Brown with Cameron was a downgrade.

[Deleted]

And we paid £13 billion.

So why couldn't we tell the EU to fuck off and just use that £13 billion ourselves?

Well, with them paying in 4.5 billion, we'll need to cover that when the money comes out, so that leaves us with 8.5 billion, which leaves us with roughly 23.2 million a day going spare (hardly the 55 million a day thats been bandied about by the Leave campaign, but whatever), what do you imagine we can do, as a country, with 23 million a day? Considering that the daily running costs of the NHS is in the hundreds of millions.