Protection legion Discussion

[Murlocbait]

There's no point using facts against somebody that insists on being ignorant.

I like that you already replied to the post directly, making your points. But after more than an hour of not getting a response, you quoted someone else responding to it with a pointless, inflammatory statement just so you could reply again. Only the second time, rather than try to make a useful point, you just shit-posted. Really, well done. Gonna go ahead and put you on ignore, because it's clear that you are useless.

[Agromat]

Oh, NOW I see what's going on.

We are almost there, but I think we are not understanding each other because of how we understand the Rage generation formula.

From my understanding, it's calculated depending on your current health (a), minus, your final health (b) after taking some damage. Once that difference (a-b) reaches 2% of your max HP, you gain 1 Rage. (note that "a" and "b" are converted into percentages of your HP, so they are multiplied by 100/max health).

The rage formula calculates how much rage you gain from a damage event without ever looking at your current % health, or your % health before the attack. It purely uses the amount of damage you took and your max health to calculate how much rage you gained.

Say you take 200 damage and have 1000 health. The rage formula is 50 * (DAMAGE_TAKEN / MAX_HEALTH), or 50 * (200 / 1000) = 10. You gain 10 rage.

Now, say you take 2 damage and have 1000 health. Now you gain 50 * (1 / 100) = 0.1 rage. If you take 2 damage 9 more times, that will add up to 1 rage, and you'll get a rage point. Note that it doesn't matter what your health is at any part of this process, or whether you're healed in between damage events.

Another way to look at it is to see what happens if you have 1000 health, a 300 point priest shield, and take 200 damage. Absorbed damage still counts towards rage gain, so you'll gain 10 rage, and your priest shield with go down to 100 left. Your health never changed, but you still gain the rage.

Make sense?

So if (a) = 76.5% and (b) = 75%, you essentially get no rage. Is the damage you just took "saved" somewhere to be taken into account on your next Rage generating hit? If so for how long? When does this reset? What is the smallest saved delta? Does getting healed up reset this delta (=> a-b)?

Yes.
I don't know - a long time, probably.
It probably only resets when you leave combat.
I don't know. Something between 0.1% and 0.5% max health, based on my testing.
No.

[Deleted]

Another way to look at it is to see what happens if you have 1000 health, a 300 point priest shield, and take 200 damage. Absorbed damage still counts towards rage gain, so you'll gain 10 rage, and your priest shield with go down to 100 left. Your health never changed, but you still gain the rage.

Make sense?

Really? So then IP won't have a counter effect on RPDT? If so then things are a tad less terrible than I initially thought.
Parry/Dodge will still be annoying, but to a lesser degree since we should be stacking Haste/Mastery and perhaps Versatility.

I don't know. Something between 0.01% and 0.05% max health, based on my testing.

It seemed closer to 0.1%-0.2% according to your screens.

[Agromat]

Really? So then IP won't have a counter effect on RPDT? If so then things are a tad less terrible than I initially thought.
Parry/Dodge will still be annoying, but to a lesser degree since we should be stacking Haste/Mastery and perhaps Versatility.

Damage absorbed by IP or other shields definitely counts towards rage gain. It also counts toward pain gain, Gift of the Ox orb creation, and DK and Druid heals that heal a percent of damage taken in the last few seconds.

It seemed closer to 0.1%-0.2% according to your screens.

You're right. Whoops! Fixed.

[Deleted]

All this makes me wonder how would a talent allowing to get more Rage from damage taken, based on missing health, feel like.
The 50 multiplier in the formula could increase up to a 100 at 0% health.

In fact, they should integrate this into the Never Surrender talent, ; )

[Invrlose]

I like that you already replied to the post directly, making your points. But after more than an hour of not getting a response, you quoted someone else responding to it with a pointless, inflammatory statement just so you could reply again. Only the second time, rather than try to make a useful point, you just shit-posted. Really, well done. Gonna go ahead and put you on ignore, because it's clear that you are useless.

Reported for being inflammatory and shit-posting. As if I was actually waiting around eagerly for a reply, and didn't just check back and replied to the other person.

[Alihu]

Okay so, totally random part of this discussion, but honestly warrior looks most interesting to me out of all 3 plate wearers, since alot of my guild is going to be leather, I dont want to roll DH lol. What race would you guys say would be good for a alliance warrior? Currently im sitting dwarf but with the new human passive change Im thinking of changing to human

[Invrlose]

Okay so, totally random part of this discussion, but honestly warrior looks most interesting to me out of all 3 plate wearers, since alot of my guild is going to be leather, I dont want to roll DH lol. What race would you guys say would be good for a alliance warrior? Currently im sitting dwarf but with the new human passive change Im thinking of changing to human

Whichever you think looks the coolest.

[Warriorsarri]

Could we please try to refrain from personal or general attacks? Warrior threads in general are a very discussion friendly place, and I'd like to keep it that way.

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Okay so, totally random part of this discussion, but honestly warrior looks most interesting to me out of all 3 plate wearers, since alot of my guild is going to be leather, I dont want to roll DH lol. What race would you guys say would be good for a alliance warrior? Currently im sitting dwarf but with the new human passive change Im thinking of changing to human

When it comes to racials it's too early to tell which stats will give the greatest benefit. If we where to ignore the stat gains and just look at the other bonuses they have you'll get to chose from a few.

Dwarf: Mini personal CD
Draenei: Medium heal CD
Human: PvP trinket
Worgen: Sprint
Gnome: Budget PvP trinket, lower CD + higher rage cap
Elf: Stealth (not sure how that would be useful, but to each their own)
Pandaren: Lower fall damage + very flexible stat racial

If you care more about the bonuses you get rather than the visual, then these are a few of the things you'd have to keep in mind. In general I'd hold Dwarf, Human and Gnome the highest if we only looked at the things I listed, but that's just my personal choice, the other ones are all very much a viable option as well.

[Drkreven]

[QUOTE=Warriorsarri;41016019]Could we please try to refrain from personal or general attacks? Warrior threads in general are a very discussion friendly place, and I'd like to keep it that way.


I have to agree with Warriorsarri on this so can we at least try to refrain from turning this thread or any others into a inflammatory thread full of personal attacks, and insults. I for one have long believed if some of our feedback has not been taken seriously it has been due to things such as this, which seeks to discredit our feedback... because if we cannot stop arguing with each other long enough to have one strong concerted voice on these subjects then we can hardly be taken seriously as a community. So that being said please take such toxic actions such as this elsewhere as it only stands to divide and separate the intended purpose of forum threads such as this, and has no place on this thread or any other for that matter.

[Invrlose]

Could we please try to refrain from personal or general attacks? Warrior threads in general are a very discussion friendly place, and I'd like to keep it that way.

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When it comes to racials it's too early to tell which stats will give the greatest benefit. If we where to ignore the stat gains and just look at the other bonuses they have you'll get to chose from a few.

Dwarf: Mini personal CD
Draenei: Medium heal CD
Human: PvP trinket
Worgen: Sprint
Gnome: Budget PvP trinket, lower CD + higher rage cap
Elf: Stealth (not sure how that would be useful, but to each their own)
Pandaren: Lower fall damage + very flexible stat racial

If you care more about the bonuses you get rather than the visual, then these are a few of the things you'd have to keep in mind. In general I'd hold Dwarf, Human and Gnome the highest if we only looked at the things I listed, but that's just my personal choice, the other ones are all very much a viable option as well.

I'm fine with being civil as long as others don't intentionally set out to pick out minor flaws in a harmless post that isn't even intended to be argumentative, or initiating arguments by bolding sections of text and making sarcastic remarks. I've reported someone in here for inflammatory remarks and I've been infracted on this website for much more civil posts, I'm sure you will deal with it properly.

As for raciala, I'd agree that human, dwarf, and gnome are good choices. Although I don't think racials are going to make much difference at the end of the day. I played as a night elf for years because of the Dodge chance buff. I'm not sure if it's still there.

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On the topic of rage Gen you guys are splitting hairs. Boss smacks you, you get rage. There isn't many mechanics that I can think of that would hit you for 0.01% of your hp to add up to a significant amount of health. Postulatimg about these things is pointless as its just passive rage gain that you will never have to think about or plan around.

[Deleted]

On the topic of rage Gen you guys are splitting hairs. Boss smacks you, you get rage. There isn't many mechanics that I can think of that would hit you for 0.01% of your hp to add up to a significant amount of health. Postulatimg about these things is pointless as its just passive rage gain that you will never have to think about or plan around.

Learn to read. Also, if you find the discussion pointless, no one is forcing you to take part in it -- you can just ignore it.

[Invrlose]

Learn to read. Also, if you find the discussion pointless, no one is forcing you to take part in it -- you can just ignore it.

Um. I can read. Make 0.01% whatever you want in your head to satisfy you, the point is small damage doesn't matter and worrying about how much small damage it takes to eventually make up one rage point or whether it will give rage at all won't change how you play or make decisions. You take a smack from a boss, you get rage. Big smack = big rage. Discussion done.


You're right I don't have to take part in it. Thanks for telling me the obvious. Now refer to my post directly above the one that you quoted, specifically this:

"as long as others don't intentionally set out to pick out minor flaws in a harmless post that isn't even intended to be argumentative, or initiating arguments by bolding sections of text and making sarcastic remarks. "

At this point I have to ask if you're trolling, or if you always get angry at an extra albeit irrelevant 0.

The angst on this website man.

[Deleted]

No one is talking about 0.01% hp loss, but you. We are talking about 0.1 to 0.5% hp loss - that is 10 to 50x greater. Sorry if you can't see why that makes a difference.

This is relevant because hits won't just do damage in a nice multiple of 2% of your hp. So, if the smallest "ignored" delta of damage turns out to be 0.5% hp loss for example (it could be greater), RPDT from small hits like DoTs will necessary suffer from it.
i.g.: With a 5% hp loss DoT, you might lose on average about 10% of its RPDT. If you think that is insignificant, then I'm not sure why you'd take part in any technical discussion.

[Invrlose]

No one is talking about 0.01% hp loss, but you. We are talking about 0.1 to 0.5% hp loss - that is 10 to 50x greater. Sorry if you can't see why that makes a difference.

This is relevant because hits won't just do damage in a nice multiple of 2% of your hp. So, if the smallest "ignored" delta of damage turns out to be 0.5% hp loss for example (it could be greater), RPDT from small hits like DoTs will necessary suffer from it.
i.g.: With a 5% hp loss DoT, you might lose on average about 10% of its RPDT. If you think that is insignificant, then I'm not sure why you'd take part in any technical discussion.

You're making points I already addressed. I understand the concept perfectly fine, doesn't change what I said. It's time to take the morning angst down about 10 to 50 times.

Do you think blizzard is stupid? That if you take a 29.9% hit you're not going to get any rage from the 1.9% at the tail end of it? It obviously goes in to some sort of internal counter. A 5% dot is going to give alternating increments of 2 and then 3 rage. Blizzard isn't fucking stupid enough to miss that. And even if they do for some reason choose to not run an internal counter, boohoo. You miss out on like 2 IP's worth of rage for an entire fight. Really sucks mate. This is the game-breaking scaling issue that warriors will face, even though this isn't an issue of scaling as it will be present at all gear levels in the same amount.

[Murlocbait]

I have to agree with Warriorsarri on this so can we at least try to refrain from turning this thread or any others into a inflammatory thread full of personal attacks, and insults. I for one have long believed if some of our feedback has not been taken seriously it has been due to things such as this, which seeks to discredit our feedback... because if we cannot stop arguing with each other long enough to have one strong concerted voice on these subjects then we can hardly be taken seriously as a community. So that being said please take such toxic actions such as this elsewhere as it only stands to divide and separate the intended purpose of forum threads such as this, and has no place on this thread or any other for that matter.

What i find far more destructive are trolls with petty strawman arguments who derail the entire thread into arguing over inane points that are not really concerns to anyone. So we spend 2-3 pages of people going back and forth over things that don't matter, while the larger issues continue to be ignored (i am NOT referring to Agromat here - while I strongly disagree with his stance on many Prot Warrior issues, I still appreciate that he approaches things with an eye toward constructive feedback, even if I feel he's wrong). But, i think that's universal to any feedback thread that grows to a decent size, so I don't think it's the reason Prot warriors have been ignored by Blizz. They've been ignored because Blizz likes their crappy design, whether the players do or not. Nitpicking over rage gen for an attack that deals 0.5% of maximum health just makes the entire point seem ridiculous. We should be focusing on the larger issues with RFDT: issues with gear scaling throughout a tier, issues with rage gen while off-tanking, issues with a lucky streak of blocks screwing your rage, etc.

[Invrlose]

What i find far more destructive are trolls with petty strawman arguments who derail the entire thread into arguing over inane points that are not really concerns to anyone. So we spend 2-3 pages of people going back and forth over things that don't matter, while the larger issues continue to be ignored (i am NOT referring to Agromat here - while I strongly disagree with his stance on many Prot Warrior issues, I still appreciate that he approaches things with an eye toward constructive feedback, even if I feel he's wrong). But, i think that's universal to any feedback thread that grows to a decent size, so I don't think it's the reason Prot warriors have been ignored by Blizz. They've been ignored because Blizz likes their crappy design, whether the players do or not. Nitpicking over rage gen for an attack that deals 0.5% of maximum health just makes the entire point seem ridiculous. We should be focusing on the larger issues with RFDT: issues with gear scaling throughout a tier, issues with rage gen while off-tanking, issues with a lucky streak of blocks screwing your rage, etc.

I agree wholeheartedly with the entire post. The part that I've bolded is where I'm the most interested in. Right now in the game, as an offtank it doesn't feel like I have nothing to do. Unlike TBC where I have memories of just auto attacking the boss and occasionally having enough rage for devastate. I hope that the rage gen through taking damage will not hurt our rotational rage gain.

I will say though, if you're low on rage from getting a lucky string of blocks and parries, it doesn't matter because the amount of damage you've just mitigated through block / parry will make up for the amount of damage you would have been able to mitigate with the rage you would have generated had you taken a full melee hit. You're at a net gain from block / parry.

[Deleted]

Nitpicking over rage gen for an attack that deals 0.5% of maximum health just makes the entire point seem ridiculous.

This sentence alone shows how much you're beside the point, and what is actually being discussed.

We should be focusing on the larger issues with RFDT: issues with gear scaling throughout a tier, issues with rage gen while off-tanking, issues with a lucky streak of blocks screwing your rage, etc.

Who are you to dictate what should and shouldn't be discussed on a game's fan site? Or do you perhaps think blizzard gives a damn about a random discussion on a website called MMO-Champion? Don't be naive. People have pointed out major issues on the official testing forum without getting any feedback, so be reassured that the discussion ongoing right here serves merely as an entertainment for those interested by this sort of discussions (or "nitpicking" to put it in your own words).

Also, you claim it would more productive to discuss things like "lucky streaks of blocks screwing up one's Rage gen" or "Rage gen while of tanking", without realizing that these topics are just as nitpicky as the recent discussion, because the numbers involved are just as "insignificant".

This makes me wonder what's the point you're actually trying to make, or whether you even have a point to begin with...

[Invrlose]

This sentence alone shows how much you're beside the point, and what is actually being discussed.



Who are you to dictate what should and shouldn't be discussed on a game's fan site? Or do you perhaps think blizzard gives a damn about a random discussion on a website called MMO-Champion? Don't be naive. People have pointed out major issues on the official testing forum without getting any feedback, so be reassured that the discussion ongoing right here serves merely as an entertainment for those interested by this sort of discussions (or "nitpicking" to put it in your own words).

Also, you claim it would more productive to discuss things like "lucky streaks of blocks screwing up one's Rage gen" or "Rage gen while of tanking", without realizing that these topics are just as nitpicky as the recent discussion, because the numbers involved are just as "insignificant".

This makes me wonder what's the point you're actually trying to make, or whether you even have a point to begin with...

Dude, you're wrong. Stop.

[Deleted]

Dude, you're wrong. Stop.

I'm just gonna ignore you like it was previously done, since your main purpose here is trolling. Bye, ; )