Mafia #70: D&D

[Rixis]

Also because there were multiple sole townie roles. Like 2 druids.

The druids were actually a masonry

[Catta]

Need I remind you town had 3 rogues?

And? Town had multiple of the same yet the mafia wasnt shown to have that.

[listo95]

Also because there were multiple sole townie roles. Like 2 druids.

Well yes... But they were Masons... So... Invalid!

[Rixis]

That's actually a bad argument. As Ret points out in the dead thread, the scum team could have easily been 3 rogues and 3 wizards. He set up this game so that "obvious" observations about alignment were likely wrong. You very easily could have been scum.

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Need I remind you town had 3 rogues?

Speaking of which, when I wondered if you were a scum bard, this is how I envisioned you:

[Virothe]

If you all had not noticed I didn't feel like being a team player this game, Every single one of you were being stupid, hypocritical and sheepy as fuck. Those two days with no lynches could have been easily resolved if you had followed through on pursing lurker lynches and instead you allowed the majority of people who were lurker (or at least not as active) to skate by till end game.

[Catta]

Well yes... But they were Masons... So... Invalid!

But that wasn't known, Khaleesi

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If you all had not noticed I didn't feel like being a team player this game, Every single one of you were being stupid, hypocritical and sheepy as fuck. Those two days with no lynches could have been easily resolved if you had followed through on pursing lurker lynches and instead you allowed the majority of people who were lurker (or at least not as active) to skate by till end game.

Yet you didn't want to push the known lurkers early on Virothe.

You guys damn near killed me - imagine how the game would have gone!

[Xanjori]

I was quite happy with my own game there, stopping the Arialla lynch, getting Jynx and Large lynched. I had Celtic and Dendrek down on the suspicious list too. Part of me didn't want to claim when I did and make myself a target, but I figured I had to.

There were some strong town players too, spotting Senna visiting Large helped too because it gave someone I trusted, so that worked out well and a few other people (like Raza) played a very strong town game, made it easier to pick who to push/track. I think this was one of the better games lately, with some actual good plays coming from both sides.

GG Town!

[Dendrek]

Due to the nature of my role I had no choice but to soft claim via RP and it got me deaded

I feel bad about that. You were killed not for your RP but for your "I wanted to be a Bard" statement (which is why my team thought you were softing bard). Your RP would have given you away, of course. There's no chance I wouldn't have noticed it. But I would have felt conflicted about killing you once it became obvious to me you were a bard. On the one hand, I would have enjoyed having someone to RP with. On the other, I would have been afraid that you could counter any fake claim I made (I didn't know if our abilities were identical -- I assumed if I lied about my abilities, you'd call me out on it).

Incidentally, because of the abilities you actually had, you could have called me out for lying! So there is that...

[listo95]

Also if people who were alive and don't want to look for my role card. The part of my role I didn't want to mention was me taking flight which would make me untargetable by melee abilities.

[Dendrek]

And? Town had multiple of the same yet the mafia wasnt shown to have that.

Town having three rogues is meant to suggest that duplicates for the same alignment is not out of the question. It would have been a terrible logical leap to assume scum couldn't.

[Senna1251]

I was quite happy with my own game there, stopping the Arialla lynch, getting Jynx and Large lynched. I had Celtic and Dendrek down on the suspicious list too. Part of me didn't want to claim when I did and make myself a target, but I figured I had to.

There were some strong town players too, spotting Senna visiting Large helped too because it gave someone I trusted, so that worked out well and a few other people (like Raza) played a very strong town game, made it easier to pick who to push/track. I think this was one of the better games lately, with some actual good plays coming from both sides.

GG Town!

I thought you did well, though you seeing me visiting Large was completely by accident XD.

I didn't mention much about the specifics of my role because my ability is unlimited. Raza guessed it though. I hide.

[Catta]

Town having three rogues is meant to suggest that duplicates for the same alignment is not out of the question. It would have been a terrible logical leap to assume scum couldn't.

Hardly, I'd say its to suggest that its possible to have several townies of the same role so it cant be used against the scum that a townie of same role had already died. Not the other way around - mafia should be too small for multiple of the same roles in a RP game such as this.

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Btw, it was indeed me who silenced Kryll - twas part of my secondary win condition. Just a pity you can never get a lynch off until 4 minutes remain.

I saw no reason to divulge that though - though it was entertaining to see Anakso trying to argue in favor of Kryll. I actually did it cuz i suspected he was mafian. Turned out alright.

[Dendrek]

I think this was one of the better games lately, with some actual good plays coming from both sides.

I agree. I've spoken a few times about the bad plays we saw this game, but the reality is that there were a lot of excellent plays as well.

On that note, I would like to congratulate the following players:

Senna
Razamith
Xanjori
Monkz
Anakso

Honorable mentions:

Graeham
Arialla
Crackle
Allowyn

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Hardly, I'd say its to suggest that its possible to have several townies of the same role so it cant be used against the scum that a townie of same role had already died. Not the other way around - mafia should be too small for multiple of the same roles in a RP game such as this.

From the dead thread:

/m735 It was, and it wasn't. The mafia team could just as easily have been made up of three Wizards and three Rogues.

Almost every assumption people made about alignments based on roles was wrong this game, Catta. You being a warlock was not a shield against you being scum. Just because that's the one assumption that happened to be correct does not mean it was a valid assumption. It was correct by pure circumstance, not by design.

[Virothe]

But that wasn't known, Khaleesi

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Yet you didn't want to push the known lurkers early on Virothe.

You guys damn near killed me - imagine how the game would have gone!

No, You wanted to vote Kure who was not inactive this game. You didn't want to vote "A lurker" you wanted to vote "Someone who had lurked" Instead of living in past games smarten up and pay attention to the current game and play based that.

I don't give a fuck how Robo has played in the past, that doesn't excuse him lurker till end game in this game. I don't give a fuck how Kure played in the past, it doesn't mean voting for him based on what he did was the right thing to do.

And in both of these aspects I was right, you failed to vote out scum and yet wanted to day one lynch a member of town based on nothing but hypocritical and illogical thinking that you're still defending because you would rather be "Right" than accept the fact that you're being an idiot.

[Xanjori]

I thought you did well, though you seeing me visiting Large was completely by accident XD. .

Yeah I was slightly surprised when I got the report back that you were going the same direction as Jaden Beiber, First of his Name, King of Myspace, Lord of Twitter, Sovereign of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Slayer of the Kraken, Savior of us all, "Titles, Titles, Titles", Hand of the King and Protector of the Realm Extraordinaire, Esquire™, MD.

[Catta]

No, You wanted to vote Kure who was not inactive this game. You didn't want to vote "A lurker" you wanted to vote "Someone who had lurked" Instead of living in past games smarten up and pay attention to the current game and play based that.

I don't give a fuck how Robo has played in the past, that doesn't excuse him lurker till end game in this game. I don't give a fuck how Kure played in the past, it doesn't mean voting for him based on what he did was the right thing to do.

And in both of these aspects I was right, you failed to vote out scum and yet wanted to day one lynch a member of town based on nothing but hypocritical and illogical thinking that you're still defending because you would rather be "Right" than accept the fact that you're being an idiot.

Because i'd rather vote a known lurker on day one. Because you cant find a lurker on day one unless someone doesn't post at all. Then you'd have to wait to day 2 or 3 and then its already too far into the game.

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Almost every assumption people made about alignments based on roles was wrong this game, Catta. You being a warlock was not a shield against you being scum. Just because that's the one assumption that happened to be correct does not mean it was a valid assumption. It was correct by pure circumstance, not by design.

Yet that wasn't how the mafia team was made up and it would only have taken one double death to prove that. Until then, its a point in favor.

[Senna1251]

Yeah I was slightly surprised when I got the report back that you were going the same direction as Jaden Beiber, First of his Name, King of Myspace, Lord of Twitter, Sovereign of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath, Slayer of the Kraken, Savior of us all, "Titles, Titles, Titles", Hand of the King and Protector of the Realm Extraordinaire, Esquire™, MD.

I had to role to determine whether I could be detected or not by other people, and I failed my role that night, so you caught me. Worked out all right though.

Though you never really had to defend me, no one got on me all game. Seriously, I never received a single vote in a game that lasted about a month. That's gotta be a record, right?

Oh wait, I don't think Raza got a vote either.
/deflate ego

[Rixis]

If it makes you feel any better I would have voted on you. Your placement in the order of gibbering goblet visits looked like a perfect place to hide a team mate once it was revealed it was a scum ability.

[Danner]

So, to clear up some misconceptions...

Re: setup
In this game, we created 36 rolecards upfront. Yeah. That was a lot. We eliminated a few of the most boring roles before start, but still. Lots of roles!

Each rolecard was designed to be remotely useful as both town and scum. This is why a lot of you had abilities you didn't find particularly useful.
The scum were randomly rolled from the pool of roles. The roles assigned to the scumteam was pure RNG. For better or worse.

Then we assigned you players to the roles.

SK Team
The serial killer team was intended to have an item of sorts to help you out. If the SK didn't have a kill, it would grant a kill, for example. If the SK had a kill, it would improve it. More charges etc. Unfortunately for Anakso, we forgot... whoops! Had to patch that in on Night 1. My apologies. But we gave you the trophy mechanic instead of a particularly powerful item. Unfortunately, you kept hitting people with completely useless items.

The polished rock was a recurring gag in our design process. Obviously, Anakso had to hit the druid carryign the rock, had to happen. The puzzle box was more of an impromptu thing. Can't have a puzzle box without a puzzle, right? I spent the better part of a weekend perfecting that puzzle. Kinda happy with it.

Scum Ratio:
So, as you might have seen, this game lasted way too long. The original intent was for it to last ~8 gamedays. Clearly we failed that goal - and since we just ended gameday 12 - by a lot. I do think the scum was put at a disadvantage due to this. They had to survive more lynches than they otherwise should have had. More than anything, I think that was what really went wrong this game. Beyond that, I do not think the scumcount was particularly off. I especially enjoyed all you people more of less giving up because you thought the scum were close to winning... on gameday 7.

I personally have to take my share of the blame. I even encouraged Reticence to remove some more killing roles from the setup. I mean, we already had 7 roles with a personal kill ability. Sure, some of those were on the scumteam, and some of those were thus limited from how to use it - but it was getting a bit out of hand! Shows what I know...


Personal favourite moment:

Dendrek, your idea to combine Largehorn's disadvantage and your seeming... wow. It took both me and Reticence off guard. Amazingly done. Play fo the game material, right there. You just can't design in fun like this!

Personal favourite moments that didn't happen

On two occations, Senna was close to break the laws of physics with that arcane trickster role. Both would have been hilarious. For the uninitiated, Senna's hide ability would duplicate any action on the hiding target towards Senna as well. If the action was a spell, the action would be cancelled, and Senna could have used it the next night. Really neat role, I think. Credits to reticence for that one.

Opportunity one:
- Anakso threw a rock at Razamith
- Had Senna hid behind Razamith, the rock would have duplicated, hitting both Senna and Razamith.
- Imagine that happening several times in a row. You would've seen so many rocks being thrown about

Opportunity two:
- robozerim attacked Catta on the last night.
- Catta triggered his Misty Escape condition. Instead of his action, he would have cast Misty Escape on himself. Thing is... this is a spell.
- Had Senna hid behind catta on that last night.... then.... fun times.

- Robo's kill would have hit them both (hitting them both, big score for the mafia)
- Catta's misty escape would have been cancelled by senna, ensuring Catta died instead of escaping
- Senna would have stolen the Misty Escape, might've been useful next night ... in the event Senna hadn't also died.

- Cue gameday 12 opening with two dead bodies in the dawn post, and three very very confused remaining players all wondering where that extra kill came from.

[Virothe]

Because i'd rather vote a known lurker on day one. Because you cant find a lurker on day one unless someone doesn't post at all. Then you'd have to wait to day 2 or 3 and then its already too far into the game.

And right here we come to the heart of the issue which is two fold, one is that again you're attempting to determine the value of players based off of previous games. We all have good or bad games Catta and trying to attribute past player worth every game is a ridiculous standard to play by. You've lurked and played like shit yourself and yet you are not to be held accountable for that?

The second is that it's never "To late" in a game for a lurker lynch and the very mindset of that is what allows for lurkers to be so successful at what they do. We could have lynched Robo any day this game and been fine for it. You could have lynched me at any point and been fine for it, Fuck sakes I got Crackle lynched which was a town lynch and we still managed to win and the majority of the reason Robo was found to be scummy was due to his lurking.

So again your statement is hypocritical; but that's not even the point here. The point is who cares if we lose? If we lost because we focused on lynching lurkers we still should be taking away the fact that we're making some form of difference in the game because we're making a clear declaration that it wont be tolerated, that making the game fun is a more important thing that victory.

But we're all so concerned with getting that feather in our caps that we're allowing the game to stagnate and that should be of a much greater concern to you.