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  1. #481
    The Lightbringer Jademist's Avatar
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    I don't see it as an issue. Mythic dungeons are not entirely inaccessible to the common more casual player. I consider myself more casual in the spectrum but I started running mythic dungeons in WoD pretty early on after their release. I just needed to spend more time gearing up and I primarily ran with friends and guildies. The worst the mythic-only dungeons are going to do is force you to communicate with people. The gall!

  2. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    @emilylorange I know you are a smart person, so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt and recognize that your post here was highly sarcastic based on your view of queues. That being said, lets be realistic, Legion is not Vanilla WoW. Vanilla WoW was fun for its time but it did not have all the technology and convenience tools that we have today.
    I think you misunderstand me Jay.

    The person I was responding to was talking about a 'return to what wow once was'.

    I was helpfully reminding him that dungeon grouping 'once was' a piece of ass, and maybe we shouldn't return to that.

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    Honestly I'm not up in arms about this but there's a legitimacy to the complaint about gear inflation - Blizzard themselves have noted in the past that people will ask for higher requirements than content reasonably requires.

    The issue isn't so much mechanical as behavioral. The problem isn't that there isn't a automated queue, for me there's functionally no difference between LFD and GF beyond a few extra clicks. The problem is there's more incentive to outgear something and mow it down than to bring along people who will benefit most from the content.

    The partial solution is, of course, make a group with whatever requirements you wish.... but that's more addressing the symptom than the problem.
    Couldn't a player just create a group using the group builder tool, set the min ilvl to whatever blizz deems "minimum" for that content (lets say a mythic dungeon), and invite the first 4 people who fill the roles you need, and then just go to dungeon and do content?

    If a player doesn't care about the comp of their group, if they dont care about ilvl except the minimum that blizz recommends for that content then what is the issue about just simply creating your own group? (speaking generally of course)

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    I think you misunderstand me Jay.

    The person I was responding to was talking about a 'return to what wow once was'.

    I was helpfully reminding him that dungeon grouping 'once was' a piece of ass, and maybe we shouldn't return to that.
    I think you may have used the wrong term. "Piece of ass" means something pretty specific...

  5. #485
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    I think you misunderstand me Jay.

    The person I was responding to was talking about a 'return to what wow once was'.

    I was helpfully reminding him that dungeon grouping 'once was' a piece of ass, and maybe we shouldn't return to that.
    Agree.

    I think that there were def pros and cons back in the day when it came to forming groups. Pros that you could meet other people on your server and form some good friendships (which I certainly did), cons are all the things you listed. You could very well be looking for people for an hour or more depending on the happenings of the group. It wasn't my experience that that happend much as I was on a pretty populated server and there were always people looking for groups, but i could see how it could happen to people on lower pop servers.

  6. #486
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Couldn't a player just create a group using the group builder tool, set the min ilvl to whatever blizz deems "minimum" for that content (lets say a mythic dungeon), and invite the first 4 people who fill the roles you need, and then just go to dungeon and do content?

    If a player doesn't care about the comp of their group, if they dont care about ilvl except the minimum that blizz recommends for that content then what is the issue about just simply creating your own group? (speaking generally of course)
    I answered this in the last sentence of the post you quoted.

  7. #487
    I am Murloc! Usagi Senshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    Honestly I'm not up in arms about this but there's a legitimacy to the complaint about gear inflation - Blizzard themselves have noted in the past that people will ask for higher requirements than content reasonably requires.

    The issue isn't so much mechanical as behavioral. The problem isn't that there isn't a automated queue, for me there's functionally no difference between LFD and GF beyond a few extra clicks. The problem is there's more incentive to outgear something and mow it down than to bring along people who will benefit most from the content.

    The partial solution is, of course, make a group with whatever requirements you wish.... but that's more addressing the symptom than the problem.
    Thank you, you get it! That is my main complaint and honestly, I have no problem forming my own groups either for these. The issue is Blizzard knows people will abuse it and go ahead and release it anyway without adding in some way to stop it from happening. Personally just leaving it as is and and queuable is fine by me as well because they're not hard at all. I also foresee them not being done much and eventually changed to be used on the LFD anyway.

    My solution, cap the ilvl for its intended ranged and if you over gear it, you get brought down once you zone in. That way the sad little shits will have less incentive to exclude players based on ilvl alone. Obviously this won't be in play for Mythic+ as that's another beast altogether and is fine as is.
    Tikki tikki tembo, Usagi no Yojimbo, chari bari ruchi pip peri pembo!

  8. #488
    Quote Originally Posted by zaino View Post
    I think its a shame your missing out on content because of how stubborn you are
    he wont miss them too much - once blizzard realises they are used by liek 2 % of playerbase they will back down on this idiotic decision without any doubt. its just shame they aparently didnt learn anything from wod about catering to special snowflakes and how detrimantal it is for game.

  9. #489
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    You could very well be looking for people for an hour or more depending on the happenings of the group. It wasn't my experience that that happend much as I was on a pretty populated server and there were always people looking for groups, but i could see how it could happen to people on lower pop servers.
    Aside from the megaservers like stormrage and sargeras and company, I'm skeptical that current populations on some servers could give adequate groups at all.

    Frostwolf/Vashj is such a damn wasteland I startle when trade chat says something lol

    Crossrealm and queues are probably what keeps the dead servers afloat, since merges are still talked about in hushed, ashamed tones in Blizz HQ

  10. #490
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    I answered this in the last sentence of the post you quoted.
    "addressing the symptom than the problem"

    What is the problem?

  11. #491
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotef View Post
    Personally just leaving it as is and and queuable is fine by me as well because they're not hard at all. I also foresee them not being done much and eventually changed to be used on the LFD anyway
    This is the best part. I can see this decision getting reversed in a patch.

    It's that thing where I think this is supposed to encourage social behavior - the theory being that people will want to do the dungeons enough they'll push through the barriers to entry.

    What's going to happen is they skip it entirely and queue for LFR. lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    What is the problem?
    That I've been trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone responding to my posts without reading them, tbh

    Have a nice day Jay.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    The problem is there's more incentive to outgear something and mow it down than to bring along people who will benefit most from the content.
    You're speaking from the perspective of someone who out gears the content and wants to just bring people to get it done quickly. That happens in a progressive gear system that most MMOs adhere to. As time goes on, the gear levels go up, and less people want to take more time in older content that they out gear, hence they want to bring along people with similar item levels to smash through it.

    I don't see this as a problem though. I don't see any issue with having 2 dungeons off the random matchmaking tool creates. Players who don't care about ilvl have the freedom and ability to form a group with no restriction, players who would rather bring other players with higher item levels will.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    That I've been trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone responding to my posts without reading them, tbh

    Have a nice day Jay.
    I apologize, I admit I was skimming and my thoughts got caught up in other points of the post. I responded to the problem in your original post.

  13. #493
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbotef View Post
    Thank you, you get it! That is my main complaint and honestly, I have no problem forming my own groups either for these. The issue is Blizzard knows people will abuse it and go ahead and release it anyway without adding in some way to stop it from happening. Personally just leaving it as is and and queuable is fine by me as well because they're not hard at all. I also foresee them not being done much and eventually changed to be used on the LFD anyway.

    My solution, cap the ilvl for its intended ranged and if you over gear it, you get brought down once you zone in. That way the sad little shits will have less incentive to exclude players based on ilvl alone. Obviously this won't be in play for Mythic+ as that's another beast altogether and is fine as is.
    If I make a group and decide I only want ilvl 900 with 3 legendaries and a maxed out artifact why shouldn't I be able to build that group? If they're not being done much, as you predict, then I likely wont have that luxury anyway since Ill be desperate to find people willing to run them.

  14. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    he wont miss them too much - once blizzard realises they are used by liek 2 % of playerbase they will back down on this idiotic decision without any doubt. its just shame they aparently didnt learn anything from wod about catering to special snowflakes and how detrimantal it is for game.
    I definitely see them putting the heroic version of the dungeon in the game in the first content patch. I can't really see why that would be such a big deal, though. It wouldn't necessarily be an admission of failure. It's a lot like raids having a "true" final boss battle that's only in heroic/mythic. I think it's a nice balance between rewarding the "special snowflakes", as you put it, without alienating the more casual player base. A smaller group of players will have a bit of exclusivity for a while, but everyone gets to experience it at their own pace eventually.

  15. #495
    it's an MMO. if you are not able to gather four friends to do a dungeon maybe this genre is the wrong kind of game for you.

  16. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    If I make a group and decide I only want ilvl 900 with 3 legendaries and a maxed out artifact why shouldn't I be able to build that group?
    You can

    But I reserve the right to laugh mercilessly, much as I would if someone showed up to replace the chain on my bike with a hydraulic lift in tow.

  17. #497
    Banned Jaylock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anastasiaEU View Post
    it's an MMO. if you are not able to gather four friends to do a dungeon maybe this genre is the wrong kind of game for you.
    I would have to agree with this statement. Great first post btw.

  18. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    You can

    But I reserve the right to laugh mercilessly, much as I would if someone showed up to replace the chain on my bike with a hydraulic lift in tow.
    Thats fine, I think its silly as well... but what we think of it is completely irrelevant because people should have the freedom to group with whomever they want with whatever ridiculous criteria they choose to set. Instead of whining about other people's groups and suggesting Blizzard cap ilvls, just make your own groups with your own criteria and everyone wins.

  19. #499
    Quote Originally Posted by nazrakin View Post
    Thats fine, I think its silly as well... but what we think of it is completely irrelevant because people should have the freedom to group with whomever they want with whatever ridiculous criteria they choose to set. Instead of whining about other people's groups and suggesting Blizzard cap ilvls, just make your own groups with your own criteria and everyone wins.
    I'm really glad people are here to tell me exactly what I've already said today as if it's new information.

  20. #500
    Quote Originally Posted by emilylorange View Post
    I'm really glad people are here to tell me exactly what I've already said today as if it's new information.
    I have no clue what you've been saying today since I haven't bothered to read any of your prior posts. If you already understood that, great. If not... the more you know.

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