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  1. #1801
    Hopefully I don't get to 110 and start raiding only to realize aff locks don't bring enough to raids to be useful. We don't have burst, our AOE is terrible, and our artifact traits are lack luster. So happy we can easily switch to other specs, oh wait....
    Sylvanas Windrunner For Warchief 2016!!
    #NoFlyNoSub, #NoFlyNoLegion, #NoFlyNoBuy, #BringBackFlight

  2. #1802
    Quote Originally Posted by dholland662 View Post
    But if baconeggcheese is confident I am too. He's knowledgeable
    I'd take anything I say with a grain of salt.

    One thing is I think many people seem to be under the illusion that they'll only be playing 1 spec in legion, where I'm fully expecting to continue business as usual with spec swapping. You might see people sticking to specs for emerald nightmare, but by suramar we should definitely have multiple artifacts well off.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I'd take anything I say with a grain of salt.

    One thing is I think many people seem to be under the illusion that they'll only be playing 1 spec in legion, where I'm fully expecting to continue business as usual with spec swapping. You might see people sticking to specs for emerald nightmare, but by suramar we should definitely have multiple artifacts well off.
    I only want something comparable damage-wise to destro so I can change things up once in awhile. Of course demo is always an option but affliction has always been my least played spec. I actually main a shadow priest but am considering switching over to my warlock, so coming from a class where there's only one dps spec, moving to a class where there are three specs to switch between it would be fantastic to be able to switch between them at will, without worrying about a massive disparity in damage. Of course only time will tell how they stand after the tuning phase, but I'm optimistic.

  4. #1804
    The Patient Slashkill's Avatar
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    I actually do really hate affliction playstyle in Legion.

    First - less and less class fantasy. Soul shards are the shards of SOULS, it was okay spending them on Haunt, which is actually a SOUL. Spending them on UA instead, with UA actually being the only shard dump without talents? Feels awful. Ulthalesh, the SOUL Harvester, has little to none interaction with shards as well. I'd much rather see it's ability being something like "Consume 1 to 5 shards to increase your damage by x% per shard spent and/or accelerate your dots by x% per shard spent, lasts x seconds per shard spent".

    Coming next is actually our Artifact weapon. I was so hyped seeing the preview when it was just announced, and the ability to consume souls actually excited me so much I thought I'm finally gonna be able to play the soulmancer affliction warlock should be. Time passed. Mini-game with soul killing is gone - why, oh why? Affliction feels like it's suffering the most from ability pruning, and without this minigame the spec is utterly boring... at least to me. Lack of cool animations to compensate (say - frost DK) adds to it. The idea of "doubling the artifact traits on use" is as awful as tuning our overall damage down because we kinda doubledip with Soul Effigy. It's just a bad design imo.

    DoTs. We've had 2 instant cast dots since... BC, probably? Pre-BC even, because every aff lock went for that instant corruption talent. Hell, even most non-aff locks did. I feel it's high time we had some DoT diversity. Like, get rid of corruption since it's the most boring DoT we have, leave Agony as it is, reverse the Unstable aff change and add some shard-consuming DoT/Haunt-like ability. Dunno, something like "Soulrend - deals x shadow damage per sec and doubles the rate at which your Agony deals damage. If Agony is already at maximum damage, it will ramp up beyond the threshold, but reverts to normal maximum stacks when Soulrend ends".

    Shard generation. Dam, give us already some stable resource of shard generation aside from killing stuff with Drain Soul, which is now a talent! Why is it even a talent after all?

    Those are probably all my aff lock concerns. Wanted to add another thing, which is concerning all classes' artifacts in general - I just hate it when artifact has no connection to your abilities. Demo locks, Unholy DKs, probably Ele/Enh shaman(s?) are those classes which have the perfect Artifact weapon design (demo locks' traits are utter garbage though, probably with the exception of Expendables).

    All in all, these are my concerns about aff. I love the spec fantasy, but it's totally unexistant in the game right now, so we have nothing to compensate the boring and dull gameplay.

    Sorry for my bad english, don't get to practice it.
    Last edited by Slashkill; 2016-06-23 at 07:12 AM.

  5. #1805
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I'd take anything I say with a grain of salt.

    One thing is I think many people seem to be under the illusion that they'll only be playing 1 spec in legion, where I'm fully expecting to continue business as usual with spec swapping. You might see people sticking to specs for emerald nightmare, but by suramar we should definitely have multiple artifacts well off.
    I agree, Bliz has never be able to balance our specs to all be equal on all bosses with our talents. So far Destro usually is in the best spot for a raid spec. But demo/aff have been deemed best in a view cases/tiers.

    Affliction gets allot from enemy deaths in the form of our talents and Reap. This means that on add fights we might still suck at bursting down adds, we do gain allot of damage with reap doubling all our talents. Affliction might be the spec that benefits the most from artifact power as we can double all the damage gains. Does that include the 0,5% damage talent stacking to 20 as well?

  6. #1806
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Slashkill View Post
    Mini-game with soul killing is gone - why, oh why?
    Thats new for me. Is it true ? This ability was more or less the main reason why i would main affli. Cool stuff to do if you have just a few targets to deal with. The mmo artifact calculator still show that it spawns souls.
    Last edited by mmocd34bec8955; 2016-06-23 at 12:58 PM.

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    Many people are concerned first and foremost with being competitive against other dps classes in their raid (i.e their contribution to a boss kill), then with others of the same spec. In that regard, it ALWAYS matters.
    No, see it actually doesn't, at all. In the vast majority of cases, the player is more important than class. If you aren't the best of the best, your personal improvement is greater than spec balance. The only time it goes out the window is like Survival this patch? Not even sure how bad it is. You get the point. Focus on improving as a player. NOT your spec.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vankhorne View Post
    I agree, but somehow Blizzard believes our damage is fine.
    There's months of tuning to go, for fuck sake. These posts fill up too much of this forum. Dumb comments with no point, no basis, no logic, just crying, whining and Blizzard bashing.
    Last edited by Sarkol; 2016-06-23 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #1808
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinuvial View Post
    I agree, Bliz has never be able to balance our specs to all be equal on all bosses with our talents.
    See that's the thing, blizzard very intentionally does not balance them in that way. They have stated many times they want different specs to be stronger / weaker in different situations and have their niches.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  9. #1809
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    See that's the thing, blizzard very intentionally does not balance them in that way. They have stated many times they want different specs to be stronger / weaker in different situations and have their niches.
    Thats fine but in the past you didnt had to farm 2 month worth of artifact points to play your second spec with its full available power.

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by prinnybomb View Post
    Thats fine but in the past you didnt had to farm 2 month worth of artifact points to play your second spec with its full available power.
    They've already said multiple times that power acquisition will increase on both the knowledge and a flat level over time making catch up quicker. As well as having heavy diminishing returns for leveling up a single artifact. For instance going from lvl 13 to 14 costs more AP then going from 1-13. And continues to scale rapidly, meaning its gonna make more sense to fill out other artifacts after a certain point than continue on your main one as a pure.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by prinnybomb View Post
    Thats new for me. Is it true ? This ability was more or less the main reason why i would main affli. Cool stuff to do if you have just a few targets to deal with. The mmo artifact calculator still show that it spawns souls.
    Been gone for months. It really didn't work well, the whole "minigame" was basically solved with a "/cast [target=Tormented Soul] Agony" macro, the souls were static and were like 2-3rppm so you couldn't use them alone to keep passives up and they always spawned away from things making their interaction with soul flame basically nonexistent unless you got lucky. It was a neat idea, just didn't work well in actual raid environments that weren't patchwerk. New passive still spawns souls, but they are non-interactive and are just used to extend the duration of reap/harvest. Killing things still spawns souls.

  12. #1812
    Quote Originally Posted by prinnybomb View Post
    Thats new for me. Is it true ? This ability was more or less the main reason why i would main affli. Cool stuff to do if you have just a few targets to deal with. The mmo artifact calculator still show that it spawns souls.
    While it sounded cool, it turned out to be really shitty in practice. Glad it's been changed.

  13. #1813
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    No, see it actually doesn't, at all. In the vast majority of cases, the player is more important than class. If you aren't the best of the best, your personal improvement is greater than spec balance. The only time it goes out the window is like Survival this patch? Not even sure how bad it is. You get the point. Focus on improving as a player. NOT your spec.

    - - - Updated - - -



    There's months of tuning to go, for fuck sake. These posts fill up too much of this forum. Dumb comments with no point, no basis, no logic, just crying, whining and Blizzard bashing.
    No basis and no logic? Check any meters and simulations and see for yourself. It would be a first if things go live in an unbalanced state right? Oh wait...
    You must be new to WoW Betas...

  14. #1814
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankhorne View Post
    No basis and no logic? Check any meters and simulations and see for yourself. It would be a first if things go live in an unbalanced state right? Oh wait...
    You must be new to WoW Betas...
    Check sims. 2 months before it goes live. Stop making me laugh.

  15. #1815
    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    See that's the thing, blizzard very intentionally does not balance them in that way. They have stated many times they want different specs to be stronger / weaker in different situations and have their niches.
    Yet in WoD you could have played Demo at one point in time for all bosses and do really good, and when Demo was nerfed, again Destro performed really good on all bosses. Yes, Destro wasn't as good as Affliction on maybe 2-3 bosses, but it was still very close. Bottom line you could just learn one spec (destro) and get away with it for all bosses, but if you only knew affliction then you screwed yourself.

    Affliction was always the weakest spec overall when it comes to progression. You can pretend that spec didn't exist and you can do progression just fine. Same isn't true for destro (or demo before it got nerfed). So I'm fine with specs having niches, but not to the point that it completely sucks at 80% of progression fights like affliction did in WoD.
    Last edited by Darkheart; 2016-06-23 at 07:45 PM.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart View Post
    Affliction was always the weakest spec overall when it comes to progression. You can pretend that spec didn't exist and you can do progression just fine. Same isn't true for destro (or demo before it got nerfed). So I'm fine with specs having niches, but not to the point that it completely sucks at 80% of progression fights like affliction did in WoD.
    Your recency bias is showing.

  17. #1817
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart View Post
    Yet in WoD you could have played Demo at one point in time for all bosses and do really good.
    Which was considered a problem, especially because the other 2 specs didn't share that trait. It very clearly went against their design philosophy and they said as much... Hence the subsequent nerf, and the state of destro / aff. If you played destro on all fights then you under performed in the situations where you didn't need the kind of damage destro does. No different than you'd under perform if you only stuck to aff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart View Post
    So I'm fine with specs having niches, but not to the point that it completely sucks at 80% of progression fights like affliction did in WoD.
    I agree with the premise, which is why its good that aff isn't pigeon holed in legion the same way it was in wod.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  18. #1818
    Does Codex of Xerath affect any abilities or is it basically just a Destro passive now?

  19. #1819
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumbtacks View Post
    Does Codex of Xerath affect any abilities or is it basically just a Destro passive now?
    the mounts and burning rush. No different than before for aff.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  20. #1820
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    Check sims. 2 months before it goes live. Stop making me laugh.
    You act like broken things never went Live from Beta. You are unaware of Blizzard's past mistakes or just plain ignorant. Take your pick.

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