Why can't we just be Egalitarian?

[PC2]

"Women should pay child support too!"

"Why are you concentrating on one sex?! Why can't you be more egalitarian!"

Hey that sounds like a good idea, I see why they do it now, it's a good way to turn the conversation away from a disadvantaged group when you don't want it to be talked about.

Women are equal in Western society, they are not disadvantaged.

[Deleted]

"Women should pay child support too!"

Fun fact, Women ordered to pay child support on aggregate gets told to pay less, can have vastly greater arrears before action is taken, and will only very very very rarely be sent to jail for failure to pay.
All issues with biased family courts.

"Why are you concentrating on one sex?! Why can't you be more egalitarian!"

because feminist are actively involved in fucking family courts over to benefit women, this did not happen by coincidence.

Hey that sounds like a good idea, I see why they do it now, it's a good way to turn the conversation away from a disadvantaged group when you don't want it to be talked about.

Like men in family courts...

[purebalance]

The BLM movement is racializing an issue that only barely has anything to do with race, the issue is almost entirely to do with police brutality and unaccountability.

In the case of the black people that have been televised(even though more white people were killed in 2015 by cops) they had it coming. Almost every single one of them had it coming. Point a gun at a cop? Lunge at a cop who has a gun? Granted I'm sure if the white deaths were covered they'd be similar, but the fact is most if not all of the police deaths were warranted. Even Freddie Gray is about to sound like he caused his own injuries like I initially suspected since they had witness testimony that the prosecution tried to suppress saying the other guy held in the same van heard him banging into the walls of his own accord.

[Deleted]

But with egalitarianism there is so much baggage because it's not just equality as in equal rights, equal treatment before the law, equality of opportunity and equal pay for equal work. Egalitarianism is about strict equality about EVERYTHING. That means not just equality of opportunity, but equality of outcome.

yeah No, there is no equal outcome shit inherent in egalitarian.

[purebalance]

Fun fact, Women ordered to pay child support on aggregate gets told to pay less, can have vastly greater arrears before action is taken, and will only very very very rarely be sent to jail for failure to pay.
All issues with biased family courts.

because feminist are actively involved in fucking family courts over to benefit women, this did not happen by coincidence.


Like men in family courts...

There was some feminist arguing with a guy about female happiness being tied to material things etc especially with divorce and he said "If money isn't so important to your happiness why are you getting alimony" and then she has the nerve to say "I have kiiiiiiids" and I'm like ummm isn't that what child support is for?

[Tijuana]

I feel like this thread is due for an Animal Farm reference but I can't be bothered to figure out where.

[Deleted]

There was some feminist arguing with a guy about female happiness being tied to material things etc especially with divorce and he said "If money isn't so important to your happiness why are you getting alimony" and then she has the nerve to say "I have kiiiiiiids" and I'm like ummm isn't that what child support is for?

well see we think its important women have the same material standard after a divorce - Personally i think we should add in that the man should have the same sexual standard, so if she wants alimony,there is a monthly blowjob attached to that...

[purebalance]

Women are equal in Western society, they are not disadvantaged.

This. Minorities aren't either. Hell women and minorities at this point have more advantages than anyone. If anyone should be angry in the US about disadvantaged by the system it should be Asian Americans since they are by far discriminated against by colleges and the work force by being somehow held to a higher standard. Hell even look at the stupid Oscar thing with Spike Lee and Jada Pinkett when if you actually look by population blacks were OVERREPRESENTED meanwhile Latinos and Asians were the ones who were underrepresented.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Fun fact, Women ordered to pay child support on aggregate gets told to pay less, can have vastly greater arrears before action is taken, and will only very very very rarely be sent to jail for failure to pay.
All issues with biased family courts.

The often not paid and never sent to jail part isn't unique to women. Hell, one time when I pointed it out, the excuse ws that since men get told to pay it more, they're excused for skipping payments and even never paying at all.

[Zarc]

yeah No, there is no equal outcome shit inherent in egalitarian.

Equality of outcome is in there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalit...egalitarianism

Now sure. Don't get me wrong. I get that there might be different forms of egalitarianism. Just as there are different forms of liberalism like classic liberalism, social liberalism, conservative liberalism, national liberalism, economic liberalism etc. But among the forms of egalitarianism that exist there are among them those who strive for equality of outcome. So then that label doesn't really come away with any less bagage than say feminism. So I'll just opt out of calling me either of them and just sticking with social liberalism which covers it all to me.

[May90]

Egalitarianism is just belief that things like races, genders, etc. do not matter when defining what rights and responsibilities a person has. Well, suppose we have established that you believe in that - now what? What does you believing it change in the world? Nothing.

Now, suppose I am an egalitarian (I am), and I understand that there is more prejudice against black people where I live than against most other racial groups. If I want to do something about it, I can create a new movement, say, "Black people are people", which will work towards making our society more egalitarian by focusing its attention on the problems of some of its members. Fighting for the rights of blacks does not make me any less egalitarian.

Sadly, many people have trouble understanding this basic concept. They think that saying "I like apples" implies "I like peers less than apples", and selling apples on the market means I hate those who sell pears on the same market.

[Alydael]

Things like discrimination and profiling are actually survival techniques. They are in our DNA and the very reason humanity survived to this day. I will give too examples (for the slow):

1) Poisonous snakes tend to display bright colors (like red). Someone eats the red snake and dies. You avoid red snakes. That is discrimination/ profiling.

2) Someone gets poison ivy from a star shaped plants. People now avoid all star shaped plants.... or the area they grow in.

- - - Updated - - -

Black lives matter except in the case of Jamyla Bolden who barely got a blip on the news while criminals are lauded by BLM and get hours of coverage. So, sorry, even to BLM black lives don't matter.

BLM is just a political organization (disguised as SJ). They only show up when it fits their narrative- they don't actually care about anybody (but themselves).

[PC2]

Equality of outcome is in there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalit...egalitarianism

Equality of outcome takes you to a seperate wiki page. They aren't the same thing.

[Deleted]

The often not paid and never sent to jail part isn't unique to women. Hell, one time when I pointed it out, the excuse ws that since men get told to pay it more, they're excused for skipping payments and even never paying at all.

There are every day more than 10 000 US men in jail for failure to pay child support - Women do not break triple digits.
These are known facts Bat - Females Arrears are on average larger before initial action is taken, and enforcement is always more lax and jailing as i said very very very rare.

[Wewlad]

Egalitarianism is just belief that things like races, genders, etc. do not matter when defining what rights and responsibilities a person has. Well, suppose we have established that you believe in that - now what? What does you believing it change in the world? Nothing.

Now, suppose I am an egalitarian (I am), and I understand that there is more prejudice against black people where I live than against most other racial groups. If I want to do something about it, I can create a new movement, say, "Black people are people", which will work towards making our society more egalitarian by focusing its attention on the problems of some of its members. Fighting for the rights of blacks does not make me any less egalitarian.

Sadly, many people have trouble understanding this basic concept. They think that saying "I like apples" implies "I like peers less than apples", and selling apples on the market means I hate those who sell pears on the same market.

Thanks for bringing that up for me to refute. Sure, the theory behind groups advocating for the rights of a certain demographic may be sound, but the actual practices often contradict what have become essentially PR statements with no substance beyond their usage to ward off critics. And when you become so focused on helping one group, you often lose sight of everyone else, as we've seen time and time again.

It also makes humans out as completely incapable of multitasking when it comes to these issues. Where this all could have been settled with one swift wave of total equality, we have all of these dragged out conflicts because peoples' personal interests—wanting to be right over others—takes away from the supposed overall goal.

[May90]

Thanks for bringing that up for me to refute. Sure, the theory behind groups advocating for the rights of a certain demographic may be sound, but the actual practices often contradict what have become essentially PR statements with no substance beyond their usage to ward off critics. And when you become so focused on helping one group, you often lose sight of everyone else, as we've seen time and time again.

Well, that's the problem of the implementation, not the idea itself. There is nothing contradicting egalitarianism in focusing on defending rights of blacks. Does everyone who claims to defend rights of blacks actually does that? Of course not. Same way as not every government claiming to be democratic is democratic - but it doesn't make the democracy as concept any less relevant.

[Wewlad]

Well, that's the problem of the implementation, not the idea itself. There is nothing contradicting egalitarianism in focusing on defending rights of blacks. Does everyone who claims to defend rights of blacks actually does that? Of course not. Same way as not every government claiming to be democratic is democratic - but it doesn't make the democracy as concept any less relevant.

Pretending the problem will just go away by ignoring it doesn't solve the issue at all.

By adhering to egalitarianism, a higher standard is set for one's actions, as they cannot be biased towards one group or another.

And as I've pretty much said before, ideas are nice, but the practice is far more important.

[May90]

Pretending the problem will just go away by ignoring it doesn't solve the issue at all.

By adhering to egalitarianism, a higher standard is set for one's actions, as they cannot be biased towards one group or another.

And as I've pretty much said before, ideas are nice, but the practice is far more important.

When you are defending legal and social rights of a certain group of people in order to make them equal to those of other groups of people, you are being egalitarian. There is no need to say it out loud, it is assumed by default.

Practice is more important, yes. But the important point is that misguided practice does not compromise the concepts. People, however, are quick to criticize the concepts based on the practice that actually diverges with them.

[Hiricine]

People aren't equal so it doesn't make sense to be Egalitarian. People should be treated for their value and merit, but that by it so you should treat people unequally. Even if you wanted to treat people equally DESPITE that, it would imply unequal treatment, because some people do things that also make it so you should treat them negatively compared to others, or in a way, allowing for poor behavior or decisions because you treat people the same despite that.

Equality in most senses is not only a lie but not even an ideal.

[Cthulhu 2020]

When you are defending legal and social rights of a certain group of people in order to make them equal to those of other groups of people, you are being egalitarian. There is no need to say it out loud, it is assumed by default.

Practice is more important, yes. But the important point is that misguided practice does not compromise the concepts. People, however, are quick to criticize the concepts based on the practice that actually diverges with them.

I think some part of them knows this, that concentrating on a disadvantaged group to bring them towards equality is egalitarianism, but the prejudiced side of them tells them to just criticize people for "only working on bettering one side" because they're not getting special treatment and they're jelly. Or something like that.