The Ebon Blade's new Four Horsemen (massive spoilers)

[Florena]

The Paladin doesn't reference it, the implication is that this takes place during the Paladin's "ohshit we have to save the Priests" finale, since none of the big name Paladins are there except for Liadrin, who (From what I can remember) doesn't actually go with the Paladins to Netherlight Temple.

Well hopefully this will get mentioned at some point at least.

[KrazyK923]

They didn't kill dozens. They killed maybe a dozen at most, everyone else was merely being distracted by ghouls or just wasn't finished off. Even then on top of that, the player character was the one who killed them.

I'm pretty sure I killed at least 12 on my own, not to mention Nazgrim going all Draenosh on Maxwell Tyrosis, and then resurrecting a shitload of ghouls from their very own tombs.

[Graden]

They didn't kill dozens. They killed maybe a dozen at most, everyone else was merely being distracted by ghouls or just wasn't finished off. Even then on top of that, the player character was the one who killed them.

A dozen of innocent people that got killed just because. Arrashi is right, this is declaration of war. There is no excuse for what they did.
And yes, the player character is a member of the Ebon Blades who followed Darion's orders.

[KrazyK923]

A dozen of innocent people that got killed just because. Arrashi is right, this is declaration of war. There is no excuse for what they did.
And yes, the player character is a member of the Ebon Blades who followed Darion's orders.

Actually at this point they are the leader of the Ebon Blade, taking orders from the Lich King. If you watch the beginning, Darion doesn't even want to go through with resurrecting Tirion.

[Maxweii]

I'm pretty sure I killed at least 12 on my own, not to mention Nazgrim force choking the acting leader, and then resurrecting a shitload of ghouls from their very own tombs.

Yeah like I said, we as the player kill about a dozen. It's not said that the ghouls kill the paladins, they barely take any damage from them and are basically just being distracted. And the force choke on the acting leading is just to hold him off/get him to tell them where the body is. We kill noone of note, and only a small handful actually die by our hand.

[Florena]

A dozen of innocent people that got killed just because. Arrashi is right, this is declaration of war. There is no excuse for what they did.
And yes, the player character is a member of the Ebon Blades who followed Darion's orders.

Isn't Darion following YOUR orders and you get them from the lich king? Or is he the leader of the class hall and you take over when he becomes a horseman?

Either way, even if it had been zone with zero casualties this would be cause for a major **** storm.

[Maxweii]

A dozen of innocent people that got killed just because. Arrashi is right, this is declaration of war. There is no excuse for what they did.
And yes, the player character is a member of the Ebon Blades who followed Darion's orders.

Yes a dozen not a couple dozen died. Wasn't as drastic as you were saying at first.

[KrazyK923]

Yeah like I said, we as the player kill about a dozen. It's not said that the ghouls kill the paladins, they barely take any damage from them and are basically just being distracted. And the force choke on the acting leading is just to hold him off/get him to tell them where the body is. We kill noone of note, and only a small handful actually die by our hand.

It doesn't matter that the Ghouls are a distraction. We don't bring the Ghouls with us. We defile their tomb and resurrect a bunch of their fallen crusaders as fodder to do nothing but distract people.

We defile their tombs to resurrect their dead friends. We're actively choking their leader so we can get into their secret base. We murder a bunch of their defense group left behind to guard the place, and want to resurrect and corrupt Tirion Fordring, one of the greatest paladins who ever lived and had JUST died, because the Lich King said that we MUST remake the Four Horsemen.

If the Horde did this to the Alliance, it would be an act of war. If the Alliance did this to the Horde, it would be an act of war. It isn't different because a class organization did it to another class.

[Arrashi]

Yes a dozen not a couple dozen died. Wasn't as drastic as you were saying at first.

Let's put it that way - if you go on rampage and start killing people, others will consider you fuckup and criminal regardless of if you kill 2 or 10.

At the moment EB destroyed any form of trust other factions could create with them. They WILL betray you the second it fits them and there is no point thinking otherwise. Makes me wonder if potential of tirion was worth obliterating any form of normal interactions with other factions.

Oh and scratch what i said about stromgarde part. Since sylvanas seems oblivious of galens independent ambitions it will look as attack on her/forsaken.

[KrazyK923]

Come to think of it, I've done and seen about 7 of the class campaigns thusfar. All of them at least end with some kind of blow against the Legion. Except the Death Knights.

The Priests and Paladins defend Netherlight Temple, leading to the defeat of Balnazzar and securing the aid of some of the Army of the Light.

The Warlocks successfully enslave the Eredar Twins and save their Council of the Black Harvest, which they then turn to fight the Legion.

Mages root out corruption in Dalaran and solidify its safety.

Shamans get the aid of the Elemental Lords to fight the Legion.

What do the Death Knights do? They go around violating places and desecrating the graves of a Horde general, an Alliance King, and try to force Tirion Fordring into their ranks just to reform the Four Horsemen. And how does the quest line end? Not even a reference that the Horsemen are going to go fight the Legion. Just that their enemies should be afraid. It's just another example that the Lich King is just puppeteering the Ebon Blade once again for his own agenda.

Don't get me wrong, I love it from a fan perspective, but the Death Knights definitely made themselves look like unabashed villains in their quest chain.

[Graden]

Yes a dozen not a couple dozen died. Wasn't as drastic as you were saying at first.

I said dozens because I counted the ghouls as well, you seem to ignore them because they are just 'ghouls'. Remember the reason why these graves beneath Light's Hope Chapel existed in the first place? Thousand of bodies of fallen heroes of the Light that got buried there to protect them from being raised by the Lich King.

[Seifross]

It's definitely a major story beat, so I really hope it isn't ignored as we move forward.

On that note, does anybody know if the Paladin campaign references this after the priest hall battle?

[Arrashi]

Come to think of it, I've done and seen about 7 of the class campaigns thusfar. All of them at least end with some kind of blow against the Legion. Except the Death Knights.

The Priests and Paladins defend Netherlight Temple, leading to the defeat of Balnazzar and securing the aid of some of the Army of the Light.

The Warlocks successfully enslave the Eredar Twins and save their Council of the Black Harvest, which they then turn to fight the Legion.

Mages root out corruption in Dalaran and solidify its safety.

Shamans get the aid of the Elemental Lords to fight the Legion.

What do the Death Knights do? They go around violating places and desecrating the graves of a Horde general, an Alliance King, and try to force Tirion Fordring into their ranks just to reform the Four Horsemen. And how does the quest line end? Not even a reference that the Horsemen are going to go fight the Legion. Just that their enemies should be afraid. It's just another example that the Lich King is just puppeteering the Ebon Blade once again for his own agenda.

Don't get me wrong, I love it from a fan perspective, but the Death Knights definitely made themselves look like unabashed villains in their quest chain.

It's interesting since at this point of time, given lich kings involvement, i really wouldn't be surprised by "btw Ner'zhul never really died and is current lich king and wants revenge on legion at all cost" twist.

[Maxweii]

I said dozens because I counted the ghouls as well, you seem to ignore them because they are just 'ghouls'. Remember the reason why these graves beneath Light's Hope Chapel existed in the first place? Thousand of bodies of fallen heroes of the Light that got buried there to protect them from being raised by the Lich King.

Yes because a raised corpse=a living person who dies when killed. A mindless ghoul is not the same as someone who is well, alive.

Like how easily this thread turns on itself. Pages back people were arguing "well they only killed a handful of people otherwise they didn't try to just murder everyone", and now it's the opposite with everything blown out of proportion.

[Treno]

I like that the Ebon Blade's methodology in attempting to raise Tirion relates to a consistent thematic line of questioning throughout Legion, "To what lengths must we go to defeat the Legion?" and "What will be the consequences of our actions?" The answers are of course different depending on who is asked, but that's what makes this fight so interesting. There is no one right answer. Some will go to such lengths to defeat the Legion that they will incite war and hatred in their allies, while others, who are more conservative in their approach, may be looked at as not doing enough, or being too weak to stop the Legion.

[Graden]

Yes because a raised corpse=a living person who dies when killed. A mindless ghoul is not the same as someone who is well, alive.

Like how easily this thread turns on itself. Pages back people were arguing "well they only killed a handful of people otherwise they didn't try to just murder everyone", and now it's the opposite with everything blown out of proportion.

That's really not the point, it doesn't matter if they killed 1 or 50 people. The fact that they attacked, killed, and defied a great number of graves of fallen heroes of a supposed allied group is what matters. This action can't remain unanswered.

Also I never said that I'm not cool with it, I gotta admit it's definitely a very nice development in terms of story, I just wasn't expecting them to go that far. I can't wait to play and experience this myself. I really look forward for more, I don't mind if it's soon or not as long as it's not going to be ignored forever.

[Arrashi]

I like that the Ebon Blade's methodology in attempting to raise Tirion relates to a consistent thematic line of questioning throughout Legion, "To what lengths must we go to defeat the Legion?" and "What will be the consequences of our actions?" The answers are of course different depending on who is asked, but that's what makes this fight so interesting. There is no one right answer. Some will go to such lengths to defeat the Legion that they will incite war and hatred in their allies, while others, who are more conservative in their approach, may be looked at as not doing enough, or being too weak to stop the Legion.

That's great and all, but at some point you reach "you are not helping" zone (and as seen with Dks fighting everyone BUT legion, its where EB is) and then move to "more harm than its worth it" area. And losing all your allies surely isn't greatest idea in times like these.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yes because a raised corpse=a living person who dies when killed. A mindless ghoul is not the same as someone who is well, alive.

Like how easily this thread turns on itself. Pages back people were arguing "well they only killed a handful of people otherwise they didn't try to just murder everyone", and now it's the opposite with everything blown out of proportion.

People who are raised into undeath, even mindless undeath have their souls tethered to the corpse. In mindless undeath they can go into a trance, but they still see out of their rotting eyes, unable to control their bodies.

[Zulkhan]

Well darion seems to cut himself on that edge

"Only we, the gloomy, dark and depressed fucks with cool necromantic powers and questionable morality can save this world!"

Yeah, he definitely does.

And yes, the player character is a member of the Ebon Blades who followed Darion's orders.

Actually, Darion follows our orders and is the player itself pushing for the brilliant idea to raise Tirion right within the Light's Hope Chapel (I guess the original idea is of the Lich King, but the player enforces it from the height of his authority as "Deathlord").

And this is actually the best part. The player bears equal if not greater responsibility than anyone else, is not clear how the dk PC is going to explain this bullshit when he'll have to face his respective faction. Can't wait for the next expansion where everyone will pretend nothing of this ever happened and go full "THE HERO OF THE HORDE HAS COME TO SAVE THE DAY YAY" on my DK, that would be worthy of a laugh and a loud one too.

[Florena]

That's really not the point, it doesn't matter if they killed 1 or 50 people. The fact that they attacked, killed, and defied a great number of graves of fallen heroes of a supposed allied group is what matters. This action can't remain unanswered.

Also I never said that I'm not cool with it, I gotta admit it's definitely a very nice development in terms of story, I just wasn't expecting them to go that far. I can't wait to play and experience this myself. I really look forward for more, I don't mind if it's soon or not as long as it's not going to be ignored forever.

I'm holding judgement for now. If there are actual consequences for the Ebon Blade doing this, I'll be fine with it. But I can't help but be paranoid that blizz intends to just gloss over it and at best give the paladins a handwave later of 'they're letting it slide to focus on the Legion.' I"m not asking for a full on paladin vs dk war, but something ought to come of this.