GOT question (mods please don't move thread as its 1 question) **SPOILER**

[gaymer77]

Is Jon Snow dead in the books & was never brought back by the red priest? I haven't read the books & am curious how far off the show is now from the books.

[Deleted]

I haven't read the books myself but from what I've heard the last books in the same spot as did last season. Jon snow bleeding/dying in the snow at Castle Black.
And thus nobody doesn't really know how he will return in the books, except Martin.

[Jtbrig7390]

The show (This season) is ahead of the books atm.

[Adam Jensen]

Is Jon Snow dead in the books & was never brought back by the red priest? I haven't read the books & am curious how far off the show is now from the books.

Jon Snow is dead at the very end of the last published book. I think there's a Daenerys chapter after that and then the book is done.

However, it is assumed that Jon would be revived by Mel in the same way he's revived in the show, this assumption was made by most fans long before he was revived in the show anyways.

[bluemoon]

Jon Snow is dead in the snow, happened in quite an early chapter of Dance and we never got a PoV at the wall after that.

[eschatological]

Jon Snow is dead in the snow, happened in quite an early chapter of Dance and we never got a PoV at the wall after that.

Jon Snow's death is the third-to-last chapter of ADwD. It's the cliffhanger the book ended on, imo. The assumption is he'll be rezzed by Melisandre, well...because GRRM has set it up that way. The two chapters after are a Selmy chapter, and a Dany chapter setting up her being found in the wilds where she's been hiding with Drogon after escaping the Sons of the Harpy in the Pit.

Book 4 ended on a similar cliffhanger, with Brienne about to be hanged by....a character who hasn't shown up in the show, a few chapters before the end. She's way ahead of her book storyline in the show. Then the book ends with some cool-down chapters of Sam arriving at the Citadel (something which hasn't happened yet on the show) and Jaime finishing up the siege at Riverrun (which just happened).

[bluemoon]

Jon Snow's death is the third-to-last chapter of ADwD. It's the cliffhanger the book ended on, imo. The assumption is he'll be rezzed by Melisandre, well...because GRRM has set it up that way. The two chapters after are a Selmy chapter, and a Dany chapter setting up her being found in the wilds where she's been hiding with Drogon after escaping the Sons of the Harpy in the Pit.

Book 4 ended on a similar cliffhanger, with Brienne about to be hanged by....a character who hasn't shown up in the show, a few chapters before the end. She's way ahead of her book storyline in the show. Then the book ends with some cool-down chapters of Sam arriving at the Citadel (something which hasn't happened yet on the show) and Jaime finishing up the siege at Riverrun (which just happened).

Ah right thought it was earlier on, been 3-4 years since I read it, maybe in my mind I'm piling on top all the released parts from the winds of winter which is confusing me as to where we are up to, will need a re-read before Winds, that's for sure.

[Fayenoor]

GRRM might pull a massive troll on the TV show and keep JS dead. He is more ruthless with his principal characters than the M&M. M&M likes to kill off the side characters a lot; but I don't think they have the chops to kill of any of the principal chars in the same clinical fashion that GRRM can.

[eschatological]

GRRM might pull a massive troll on the TV show and keep JS dead. He is more ruthless with his principal characters than the M&M. M&M likes to kill off the side characters a lot; but I don't think they have the chops to kill of any of the principal chars in the same clinical fashion that GRRM can.

What main character has GRRM killed off that D&D didn't kill off? Even better, what main character has GRRM killed off since Joffrey and Tywin died in rapid succession? I barely even count Jon Snow because long before he was stabbed people were pretty sure there was something really, really important about him.

GRRM has (rightly) pointed out that D&D, the showrunners, are far more brutal than he is. Lots of people die in the books, but they tend to not be major players, at best they might be motivations for major players (like the Butcher's Boy dying putting The Hound on Arya's list).

TBH, I think GRRM likes keeping them alive because he likes the idea of the crazy, interconnected webs he can weave. Sometimes, I think the show kills people off just to keep it simpler (Doran/Areo, Selmy, all of Dany's handmaidens, Robb's wife Talisa, etc).

[Damajin]

What main character has GRRM killed off that D&D didn't kill off? Even better, what main character has GRRM killed off since Joffrey and Tywin died in rapid succession? I barely even count Jon Snow because long before he was stabbed people were pretty sure there was something really, really important about him.

GRRM has (rightly) pointed out that D&D, the showrunners, are far more brutal than he is. Lots of people die in the books, but they tend to not be major players, at best they might be motivations for major players (like the Butcher's Boy dying putting The Hound on Arya's list).

TBH, I think GRRM likes keeping them alive because he likes the idea of the crazy, interconnected webs he can weave. Sometimes, I think the show kills people off just to keep it simpler (Doran/Areo, Selmy, all of Dany's handmaidens, Robb's wife Talisa, etc).

Yeah, the show kills them off because it's more concerned about the economic value of characters, whereas if GRRM keeps them alive he might be able to get another chapter or even large section of a book out of them. Now of course this delays the release of book 6 for example, but gives him more material and people to work with. Not that he really needs them, ASOIAF is full of them.

[eschatological]

Yeah, the show kills them off because it's more concerned about the economic value of characters, whereas if GRRM keeps them alive he might be able to get another chapter or even large section of a book out of them. Now of course this delays the release of book 6 for example, but gives him more material and people to work with. Not that he really needs them, ASOIAF is full of them.

For example, in the main thread someone recalled a character in the books disappeared 2 books ago with Robb's letter legitimizing Jon Snow as his heir, and didn't die at the Red Wedding, like she did in the show. It'll be interesting to see if she reappears. A handmaiden of Sansa's disappeared in book 1, only to reappear as an imposter Arya that the Lannisters married off to Ramsay Bolton to cement their hold on the North. Just the way Rorge and Biter kept turning up like bad pennies all over the Riverlands after they escaped Yoren's camp being slaughtered by the Mountain's men was pretty compelling.

[Damajin]

For example, in the main thread someone recalled a character in the books disappeared 2 books ago with Robb's letter legitimizing Jon Snow as his heir, and didn't die at the Red Wedding, like she did in the show. It'll be interesting to see if she reappears. A handmaiden of Sansa's disappeared in book 1, only to reappear as an imposter Arya that the Lannisters married off to Ramsay Bolton to cement their hold on the North. Just the way Rorge and Biter kept turning up like bad pennies all over the Riverlands after they escaped Yoren's camp being slaughtered by the Mountain's men was pretty compelling.

It really brings home the dynamic between the book and the show, and ultimately fuels two different arguments and many divergent camps from those arguments.

Those who prefer the show do so because it's streamlined enough to get them to the end of the telling even if it has tons of inconsistencies and things that don't make sense in retrospect. They also don't have to imagine anything more than what was actually shown, if they do so it's on them but they're perfectly able to take the show at face value and say what's what and when it was.

Those who prefer the books do so because of the often open ended nature of the results of all these comings and goings and the incentive to imagine what might have happened that wasn't actually told on the pages. It's obviously fueled tons of fan interest and theorycrafting over the years and will continue to do so as long as the books are going and then probably still farther as there'll be plotlines left unresolved, people unaccounted for and a large ? floating between hundreds of variables and situations that both did happen and could have happened IF these other things happen. It allows for a complete reimagining of the actual results of a book or plotline and creates a level of involvement and passion that the show can't ever hope to emulate perfectly and can only approach sporadically, due to all the constraints of show production and the necessities of economy.

[eschatological]

Take Gendry, for example. I know he's a big inside joke in the main thread, but I bet most show watchers couldn't even name him, describe him, or why he might be important. Yet he's been the subject of countless debates between book readers, and is used as a joke between surveyors of both mediums because he just kind of disappeared and no one ever mentioned him again in the show.

[Sierra85]

he will be ressed in the books just like in the show. i dont think a character as big as that will be able to stay dead in the books.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Is Jon Snow dead in the books & was never brought back by the red priest? I haven't read the books & am curious how far off the show is now from the books.

The Night's Watch story as of the latest book leaves off with Jon Snow bleeding out from stab wounds inflicted by the mutineers. Given the nature of GoT, it is unlikely he was saved and he probably died. We do not yet know if he will be resurrected, or if he is actually dead.

[eschatological]

I dunno, Gendry was pretty prominent and played a significant role for a time in the show, I don't think "show-watchers" are quite as dumb as you guys like to suggest.

I think you're a show watcher who keeps up with a 1000 page thread on the show on a nerdy MMO website. None of my friends have any clue who Gendry is.