[LEGION] Mistweaving Discussion

[trm90]

For what it's worth, defensives have been squashed across the board - DPS, healers, and even tanks. Paladins are the only healer with some form of gimmicky immunities. Regardless, their new mastery kind of warrants having some defensives (as well as the passive +15% health) to be in the fray.

At this stage I think Blizzard just want MWs to be high HPS healers with unparalleled mobility, but even in movement heavy fights in Live, mobility can be easily covered by eg. Stampeding Roar

[Sonrisa]

haven't had chance to test out mythic. is the dmg really that high to warrant 25% of raid as healers?

I think that in progress every guild will try to outdps a fight instead of playing safe with 5 healer

My reasons for thinking 5 heal will be standard setup at least for progress:
- It was standard on ~90% of Highmaul and BRF
- Even with how HFC ended up turning you'd use 5 healers in around half of the fights during progress
- DPS is usually only a huge concern in a few select fights, in general increasing your chances of survival tends to win out when selecting comp
- Mana is shittier now than ever and it's unlikely we will get a Candle 2.0 trinket
- Externals and tank CDs got obliterated, healer CD's increase in relevance
- Blizzard always said that their goal for 20 man mythic was 5 healers, maybe 4/6 on some fights, and that any 3 healer fights where a big fuck up on their part

I think everyone's perception is off because of the absolute insane scaling gear has had during WoD and general shortsightedness of the design team in HFC. The complete disregard for the impact of the legendary ring and brute forcing or ignoring of mechanics, has resulted in healing fights with 1 or 2 healers.

[Mollify]

For what it's worth, defensives have been squashed across the board - DPS, healers, and even tanks. Paladins are the only healer with some form of gimmicky immunities. Regardless, their new mastery kind of warrants having some defensives (as well as the passive +15% health) to be in the fray.

To be precise: HPals kept DP, RDruids kept Ironbark, RSham kept their defensive. Haven't played Priest and on my phone so not sure what defensive(s) they kept. Which is why it's so surprising that MW lost Fort Brew.

[Pedran]

To be precise: HPals kept DP, RDruids kept Ironbark, RSham kept their defensive. Haven't played Priest and on my phone so not sure what defensive(s) they kept. Which is why it's so surprising that MW lost Fort Brew.

We get a tier of talents for defensive, and while yes, they are nerfed, i think that is the point. They don't want us having two defensives that are both godlike. So while other classes keep there defensive, we have Healing Elix, Diffuse or Dampen.

[Scroguard]

If anything, I don't know how long fights are expected to last, but because of SoTC will help us out-sustain other healers mana wise, comboed with RT, ReM, dancing mists doing pretty good HPS I personally felt very solid about where mistweavers are at. Granted the ReM nerf hurt a little bit, I feel it was almost just more of an incentive to mix in more vivifies or mixing in other spells other than pushing the same 5 buttons. Side note: monks have a very good kit for AoE healing while on the move with TFT -->EF, revival, and 2 gold traits.

[Deleted]

If anything, I don't know how long fights are expected to last, but because of SoTC will help us out-sustain other healers mana wise, comboed with RT, ReM, dancing mists doing pretty good HPS I personally felt very solid about where mistweavers are at. Granted the ReM nerf hurt a little bit, I feel it was almost just more of an incentive to mix in more vivifies or mixing in other spells other than pushing the same 5 buttons. Side note: monks have a very good kit for AoE healing while on the move with TFT -->EF, revival, and 2 gold traits.

ReM will heal today 46% of what it healed for last monday. If anything tea for rem has greatly been reduced. Vivify buff have made vivify the better buttan to push if you want the most healing for you cast.

What liked about the stronger rem is that it was really rewarding for you to get you rem targets to be fully healed so you could get the rem bouncing and spliting. However now its alot more fire and forget. Heals a single target for less then soothing mist now.

[Supliftz]

ReM will heal today 46% of what it healed for last monday. If anything tea for rem has greatly been reduced. Vivify buff have made vivify the better buttan to push if you want the most healing for you cast.

What liked about the stronger rem is that it was really rewarding for you to get you rem targets to be fully healed so you could get the rem bouncing and spliting. However now its alot more fire and forget. Heals a single target for less then soothing mist now.

Vivify only surpasses ReM to cast under TFT with Uplifting Trance procs. Remember you're not just comparing the value of Renewing Mist vs Vivify, you also have to factor in the UT hps that renewing mist generates.

That said, raw healing and mana sustain are two very different things.

[Deleted]

Vivify only surpasses ReM to cast under TFT with Uplifting Trance procs. Remember you're not just comparing the value of Renewing Mist vs Vivify, you also have to factor in the UT hps that renewing mist generates.

Forgot to add save alot of mana tea:ing vivify especially in wow where mana matters more. Its however nice twa got more thoughts behind the uses.
That said, raw healing and mana sustain are two very different things.

I understand that ut uptime will be affected but it doesnt affect if you want to cast with it with tea. Just raw sp coeff its 825 vs 700 before artifact. With artifact traits just fast calculated in my head 938 vs 835 sp coeff.

[Supliftz]

I understand that ut uptime will be affected but it doesnt affect if you want to cast with it with tea. Just raw sp coeff its 825 vs 700 before artifact. With artifact traits just fast calculated in my head 938 vs 835 sp coeff.

Yes it does. That makes no sense. UT is part of the reason why you press ReM.

Even if we ignore this, at ~20% haste renewing mist pulls ahead of vivify.

[Deleted]

Yes it does. That makes no sense. UT is part of the reason why you press ReM.

Even if we ignore this, at ~20% haste renewing mist pulls ahead of vivify.

Think we are missunderstanding each other, writing on phone afterall. I meant ut isnt the reason we would tea vivify. Its to save a large portion of mana. Tea makes us able to caste 2 vivify's for the price of 1. If that makes more sense.

Problem with UT imo its a random proc so its quite hard to relie and/or put value on it without it being a stacking buff. It has even DR. With rem you should average get 4 procs per 100 ticks. But if unlucky you can get the proccs to close to each other by so you waste a proc. The more ticks we get in a smaller period the higher chance for wasting buffs.

How many rems that needed to constant wasting procs isnt something I can calculate in my head.

Tea vivify is far from a bad useage of tea.

More into the Mana Tea playstyle then the rt one.

[Deleted]

Don't you think it's quite a hurry to dismiss the fact that we won't be able to stand in melee all the time due to bosses abilities ?
Mythic encounters are designed with many spells like Felseeker on Mannoroth. How do you think this will impact our talents choices and thus our healing output ?

[Deleted]

Don't you think it's quite a hurry to dismiss the fact that we won't be able to stand in melee all the time due to bosses abilities ?
Mythic encounters are designed with many spells like Felseeker on Mannoroth. How do you think this will impact our talents choices and thus our healing output ?

Paladins and monks are immune to raid wiping spells in melee or rather instant wiping ones. Spells that require you to move from others with delayed triggers will still hit mistweaver and holy but not the instant one like chainlighting type of mechanics.

[Garg]

Paladins and monks are immune to raid wiping spells in melee or rather instant wiping ones. Spells that require you to move from others with delayed triggers will still hit mistweaver and holy but not the instant one like chainlighting type of mechanics.

Exactly. Think of Shadowfel Burst on Archimonde.

You don't know who it'll pop on, but when he casts it, you're thrown immediately into the air. MW and HPallys won't be affected by these types of mechanics.

If Shadowfel Burst had a debuff on the player it would affect, giving them time to react, then we'd be affected by it. Melee players wouldn't be affected, because Blizz has said they don't want to cause them significant downtime during a boss.

[Supliftz]

Think we are missunderstanding each other, writing on phone afterall. I meant ut isnt the reason we would tea vivify. Its to save a large portion of mana. Tea makes us able to caste 2 vivify's for the price of 1. If that makes more sense.

Problem with UT imo its a random proc so its quite hard to relie and/or put value on it without it being a stacking buff. It has even DR. With rem you should average get 4 procs per 100 ticks. But if unlucky you can get the proccs to close to each other by so you waste a proc. The more ticks we get in a smaller period the higher chance for wasting buffs.

How many rems that needed to constant wasting procs isnt something I can calculate in my head.

Tea vivify is far from a bad useage of tea.

More into the Mana Tea playstyle then the rt one.

UT vivify is the only reason you would want to TFT-Vivify. Vivify itself is quite an expensive spell, and TFT-Vivify removes the massive mana cost.

Random procs are kinda irrelevant when TFT has a 9 second cd.

[Deleted]

i dont like it that blizz allow something because its not fair i mean melees and tanks ok but only 2 healers are excluded ? look on your timer when the ability comes and run out of the melees if you fail you failed.

Problems are

->bosses don't come with timers. we make them. did you ever raid on ptr/beta?
->timers often overlap leading to timer inaccuracy
->output loss. paladins are significantly weaker when moving and now when at >10 yards from other players
->risk vs reward.if the risk is "you failed you died/wiped the raid/caused massive dps loss" then the reward needs to match that. if there is no reward, there should be no risk.

[Deleted]

ofc i do i cant agree on this immunitys and how they desgined holy pala to be something like a meleehealer like mistweaver this should be something unique or they give it so all healers not only 2 because one of them have bad movement abilitys.

Mistweaver will get hit by alot more mechanics in legion then there where in wod. Its no longer a mechanic immunity.

Its not about them having bad or good movement both classes got class mechanics that makes them want to be in melee range. Healers dont need high uptime in melee range to do something so delayed raid wiping mechanics will hit them but not chainlightning effects like brf boss with the burning wolves.

[Sonrisa]

Shadowfel Burst is a shitty example IMO, it's very delayed and very predictable. It'd be easy for a healer standing in melee to not make your raid wipe instantly. Heck you can even trascendence the splash on top of the melee, and paladins can bubble it.

Truthfully speaking I can only think of 1 mechanic in all of HFC for which I would give monks/paladins immunity: Iskar's Fire beam.

[EternalBany]

Greetings, i dont have beta access but been following the evolution of holy paladin closely (i main it) to see if i will continue in legion, the thing is i am currently in wod playing mistweaver and its fucking phenomenal, a LOT of fun, always doing something and burst casting stuff + the soothing mist is a good break from flash of light +holy shock spam, my question is should i switch to MW main in legion?
i only do pve, and love dungeons.. its a tough choice, holy paladin seems so boring..at least it has been in wod

[Garg]

Greetings, i dont have beta access but been following the evolution of holy paladin closely (i main it) to see if i will continue in legion, the thing is i am currently in wod playing mistweaver and its fucking phenomenal, a LOT of fun, always doing something and burst casting stuff + the soothing mist is a good break from flash of light +holy shock spam, my question is should i switch to MW main in legion?
i only do pve, and love dungeons.. its a tough choice, holy paladin seems so boring..at least it has been in wod

You can download the PTR, which has all of the changes upcoming in Legion to see how it is for yourself.

I enjoy not having to manage Chi anymore, and not having to use Soothing Mist to get the most Single Target healing, but Rising Thunder and Spirit of the Crane talents guarantee that you'll always have some casting to do.

[croghan]

The monk dps are more strong in pvp than wod ?