BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

Why did Pickles get a knighthood.

[Aehl]

I mean if you can think of some long term way in which the UK will be able to trade with the EU without being worse off than they were before leaving I think the government there would love to hear it.

The same way that other nations that arent part of the EU trade with them?

Agreements made as a sovereign nation?

Agreements that ARENT designed to leave the UK in the lurch?

Agreements that act for the BENEFIT of the UK and not its detriment?

I think that future trade agreements with the EU will be very very different.....in the future trade agreements wont leave the UK worse off. About time the EU stopped leeching off its members.

[Zephre]

Merkels 4th Reich is falling apart!!!

Good, 3rd time we've foiled the Germans now, aw yis.

[Shadowmelded]

Why did Pickles get a knighthood.

Was just thinking that. Maybe space issues in the Commons?

[Gangresnake]

Must be some time machine. You already know the future?

Think of the poor Switzerland that were left behind. Guess money and democracy are overrated anyway.

[Thepersona]

FTSE 100 5,703.0 -661.5 -10.39%

The futures of the London stock exchange are past -10% and falling.

gosh, the shit hit the fan pretty fast

[Fadeslol]

Uneducated old people making a mess for the young to clean up. Nothing new here, sorry Brits that your country is about to go to shit. Hopefully the old white idiots in my country won't follow suit by voting in Trump.

Lol, Trump will win in the states.

[Deleted]

Because politicians always blamed them. It was the easy way out.

Who do you think will be blamed now when nothing gets better? The big bad immigrants? Jewish? Muslims?

People need someone to blame. So they dont take a closer look who is really responsable.

It will be interesting to see what the right does now.

They've just lost their two best scapegoats: the EU, and migrants. It is difficult to see who they will blame for their ongoing failure.

[thilicen]

This is quite exciting. Yay for self-rule and democracy, though I wonder who the brits are gonna blame next when they see little to no change or improvements.

[Tradewind]

You know how I can tell I have a solid argument? When someone takes one part of it used as one of many possible examples, and treats it like it is the only point.

Okay. You debunked that one example. Here's another.

Candidates can reach people and explain their policy to voters. Where before many voters did not have that ability.

Another.

People can go online and research opinions and research regarding various policies.

Another.

People have access to basic fucking education. So now they can actually read shit and understand basic things like math and apply it to what their candidates are saying.

Another.

The fact that people are not dying at the age of 30 (or whatever) means they generally have more experience with last policies.

Any way you slice it, people today are more informed than people 300 years ago. Sure, you may disagree with them. But there is no way you can argue a population today is less informed than a population of the old days. We used to burn witches here for crying out loud.

Gimme a break

None of these things are examples of voters being educated on an issue they are voting on. Do you not understand the difference yet? Take a moment to stop blowing yourself on your "argument" and actually assimilate what is being said here.

[Deleted]

I guess everyone can. But why would we want to? You could google the history of our countries pre-EU. If it is not the travel restrictions, then surely the wars were something we never would want again.

Brexit is not a sign of de-integration, they just want another approach and the EU-state failed, national politics stand against any dream that once was. We need Zielonkas approach now.

[Kalis]

You seem obsessed with try to prove yourself and vindicate yourself with shallow displays of snobbery and gaudy ostentation. I don't think you are even fooling yourself.

For the truly successful, the things we really value are our time, our freedom, and that most of all, unlike you, the fact we don't answer to other people.

I am a self employed consultant who works when I can be arsed to. And how are you "truly successful"?

[Wells]

The same way that other nations that arent part of the EU trade with them?

Why do you think the EU would offer the UK a trade deal even as good as the one they had, let alone better? That would be actively rewarding them for weakening the EU.

[Aehl]

osh, the shit hit the fan pretty fast

Short term panic. Ignore it.

[Thepersona]

It will be interesting to see what the right does now.

They've just lost their two best scapegoats: the EU, and migrants. It is difficult to see who they will blame for their ongoing failure.

zionists. they can always blame zionists

[Wells]

gosh, the shit hit the fan pretty fast

Weird how all those professionals and experts kind of turned out to be professional experts.

[Deleted]

As was already often pointed out: Referenda would be a great tool if they could be held in a political vacuum, but they can't. Every referendum is also shaped by the surroundings, making a decision as close about such an important topic especially tricky. The populace has spoken and the UK will leave the EU. That's fine, the EU will do ok, the UK has to work now, to make the best of it. If the UK does well, great. If they have problems, they brought this on themselves.

As I already said, democracy is about discussion and debate. Nothing, not even democracy itself, should be safe from being thoroughly discussed and debated. If it's good enough it will always come out as the best solution.

100% true. That vote is democratic. It also isnt against human rights. I mean people also voted for Hitler...

This for surs is not the case here. I actually fear that anti democratic forces and hatred will gain a lot of power in the next years. Because people will realize that the EU wasnt quite as bad as some people told them and that their problems were homemade or caused by global developments.

[Deleted]

52% of the 72% of voters who turned up. 15 million out of a population of 64 million people.

Obama 2008 got 53% of 74%, 2012 even less. That's narrowly enough for your lofty standards or impeach him quickly?

[Deleted]

You know how I can tell I have a solid argument? When someone takes one part of it used as one of many possible examples, and treats it like it is the only point.

Okay. You debunked that one example. Here's another.

Candidates can reach people and explain their policy to voters. Where before many voters did not have that ability.

Another.

People can go online and research opinions and research regarding various policies.

Another.

People have access to basic fucking education. So now they can actually read shit and understand basic things like math and apply it to what their candidates are saying.

Another.

The fact that people are not dying at the age of 30 (or whatever) means they generally have more experience with last policies.

Any way you slice it, people today are more informed than people 300 years ago. Sure, you may disagree with them. But there is no way you can argue a population today is less informed than a population of the old days. We used to burn witches here for crying out loud.

Gimme a break

People have the OPTION to be more informed. That's not the same as being more informed.

There are also constantly lies, inaccuracies and misinformation spread by (in most cases) both sides of a discussion. Especially Social Media is contributing to that. Today I saw a video of a woman in a counting station using an eraser. People immediatly shared it as "voting fraud in #Brexit Vote". We are talking about an age of postinformation.

[Macaquerie]

Considering i'm American and don't have much say in this. But point i was making, his first post was saying "idiots voting for short term benefits"

The short term benefit is what you're seeing now - the people who voted Leave are fired up and excited, and get the next couple of days to rub the outcome in everyone's face and talk in self-important tones about sovereignty and independence and Make Britain Great Again and all that noise. Ultimately it's that feeling that drove them to the polls more than any rational analysis of the situation.