Why can't "the evil" win this time?

[Deleted]

Evil has been winning a few times until Blizzard waved the nerf bat at certain bosses

Evil can win some battles, but if it won the war wouldn't WoW be over (unless we all mained our DKs and went back to being evil?)

What if few survivors joined to the evil side but in truth they sabotage them from inside?

[Raugnaut]

I'm kinda tired of this good-always-win thing. It's kinda boring to know that no matter what happens in this expansion, we will win anyways.

What if we killed some important bosses in this expansion and thought we were doing great but the truth is that those bosses were just lure-rabbits and something much bigger was happening behind the curtains and last patch of the expansion we find ourselfs on losing side, get kicked to balls and only few of heroes and important-characters survive by pure luck.
After that next expansion will be 10-20 years after that event and those few now-old heroes try to fight back but because "winner writes history" happened , most of the commoners (both alliance and horde) hate those old heroes.

It's pretty simple, really - If "the evil" wins this expansion, there will no longer BE any future expansions. Legion winning=Azeroth destroyed. Old gods winning=Azeroth destroyed. Pretty much anything besides the good guys winning=Azeroth destroyed.

[speedymonkey]

Evil did just win, Xenophobes voted for the UK to leave the EU and won.

People wanting independence are xenophobic now?

[Paula Deen]

If Blizzard were smart this expansion will end with a final boss battle where we face off against KJ and maybe an Avatar of Sargeras at the same time out in the Nether somewhere. We maybe kill KJ and then some Cinematic plays and we get pushed back and that is that.

If Blizzard is Blizzard we are going to kill KJ on Azeroth and call it the end of the expansion.

[Deleted]

Well if the Legion wins the war they won't just rule this world, they will consume it like every realm they come across, so there won't be anyone here after 10-20 years. It would be the end of the Warcraft IP.

Does it have to be in Azeroth?
Where's Legion's mother-base? What if those few survivors jump into that portal Legion is using and do the revenge work in their home?

[ThunderTaco]

What will a few survivors do against the whole Legion if we couldn't defend our own home with our army agains the Legion ?

They will destroy a few places, kill maybe a bunch of unending demons and will get overwhelmed at some point. How do they eat and drink in the demon world ? How do they do anything without machines, logistics and everything we have on Azeroth ?

Even if they were able to destroy some planet, the legion doesn't care, they will come back because they are infinite and we'll be destroyed for good.

We just can't lose Azeroth because of plot (read Chronicles).

[jdbond592]

Does it have to be in Azeroth?
Where's Legion's mother-base? What if those few survivors jump into that portal Legion is using and do the revenge work in their home?

Sargeras is Legion's mother-base. As long as he is active, legion simply can't be stopped. He can always bring back those we killed.

[swaggers]

We could go with Lothraxion and more redeemed Nathrezim and try to take back Nathreza- and fail. Or Argus. Another continent on alternate Draenor. Or any world, and lose there. We could discover a brand new world untouched by the burning legion but accidentally lead them there and lose. Up the stakes for the expansion after it.

[jdbond592]

People wanting independence are xenophobic now?

Oooo..So Scotland, NK and Welsh are leaving too? Or this independence is selective?

[Pull My Finger]

*Sigh*
"It's kinda boring to know that no matter what happens in this expansion, we will win anyways."

What do you think? Maybe it bring something new and not so expected to this game?

I don't really get the logistics of "let the bad dudes win" in the game. How does that look like? I log in and my character is dead and I'm looking at its corpse for a while, and then log off again?

Or is it more like, you do dungeons or whatever, and you always die at the end? You walk through a city or a quest hub and it's just ruins and there are no NPCs there any more, because they're all dead or in jail or something.

Well that's actually a fun idea, how about a prison simulator? That would be a scenario where you could build some kind of gameplay around the "evil wins" narrative. You sit in your cell for long periods of time and just kind of wait until something happens. Then you get your slave work quest - bring 200 pristine ore from the prison mine to the taskmaster. After that, there's the shower rape sequence where you have to dodge enemies for 5 minutes, but in the end, they get you anyway. Then there's the constant danger of getting stabbed with a shiv during lunch, resulting in a perma-death...

No seriously. I just don't really understand what sort of gameplay there's supposed to be built around bad guys winning - without actually playing the bad guys. And I also don't see the appeal. Don't understand what kind of satisfaction that's supposed to give to the player. Imagining a game where the lore constantly tells you how you lost, how you got destroyed, all your friends are dead, you will always be too weak ... sounds weird and kind of masoschistic to me. That would annoy the fuck out of me after an hour - even more so than the current heroic cheesefest that is WoW.

To be honest, wanting the bad guys to win your game to me sounds like media oversaturation. It's like starting to look for animal and excrement porn because you can't get off on the normal stuff any more.

[Mirishka]

I'm kinda tired of this good-always-win thing. It's kinda boring to know that no matter what happens in this expansion, we will win anyways.

What if we killed some important bosses in this expansion and thought we were doing great but the truth is that those bosses were just lure-rabbits and something much bigger was happening behind the curtains and last patch of the expansion we find ourselfs on losing side, get kicked to balls and only few of heroes and important-characters survive by pure luck.
After that next expansion will be 10-20 years after that event and those few now-old heroes try to fight back but because "winner writes history" happened , most of the commoners (both alliance and horde) hate those old heroes.

They actually win the fight at the start, that's the reason Varian/Vol'jin are dead now.

And like others have said, the moment someone like Arthas or Sargeras 'wins' is the moment WoW is over. So yeah, no.

[Bosen]

It would feel pointless to invest in a grind with no pay-off.
To work on gear and quests just to lose would not feel satisfying.

It would be better if we were going that route,if the expansion began with our loss and failure,and we had to rebuild from there.

[Deleted]

I don't really get the logistics of "let the bad dudes win" in the game. How does that look like? I log in and my character is dead and I'm looking at its corpse for a while, and then log off again?

Or is it more like, you do dungeons or whatever, and you always die at the end? You walk through a city or a quest hub and it's just ruins and there are no NPCs there any more, because they're all dead or in jail or something.

Well that's actually a fun idea, how about a prison simulator? That would be a scenario where you could build some kind of gameplay around the "evil wins" narrative. You sit in your cell for long periods of time and just kind of wait until something happens. Then you get your slave work quest - bring 200 pristine ore from the prison mine to the taskmaster. After that, there's the shower rape sequence where you have to dodge enemies for 5 minutes, but in the end, they get you anyway. Then there's the constant danger of getting stabbed with a shiv during lunch, resulting in a perma-death...

No seriously. I just don't really understand what sort of gameplay there's supposed to be built around bad guys winning - without actually playing the bad guys. And I also don't see the appeal. Don't understand what kind of satisfaction that's supposed to give to the player. Imagining a game where the lore constantly tells you how you lost, how you got destroyed, all your friends are dead, you will always be too weak ... sounds weird and kind of masoschistic to me. That would annoy the fuck out of me after an hour - even more so than the current heroic cheesefest that is WoW.

To be honest, wanting the bad guys to win your game to me sounds like media oversaturation. It's like starting to look for animal and excrement porn because you can't get off on the normal stuff any more.

I'm kinda sure you haven't read any other messages in this thread again.
Who said that your character, or every character, died and world was destroyed? What if x number of heroes and important characters could escape to another planet before Legion destroyed Azeroth and there'd a new beginning for example? What happened to space-cows did they all just die? What if we found new super-duper-weapon like we had like that Dragon Soul?

I check'd your message history and all that you do is insult every1 in this forum. Have you ever had any fresh and new ideas or though outside of the box? Or wait, don't answer because I don't care about your ideas and toughs.

- - - Updated - - -

They actually win the fight at the start, that's the reason Varian/Vol'jin are dead now.

And like others have said, the moment someone like Arthas or Sargeras 'wins' is the moment WoW is over. So yeah, no.

I doubt Arthas would blow up the planet but I understand what you are saying. If you look some posts back, there's a good story that Blizz could've used for LK.
What if Sargeras wins this fight, gets our planet but we can go for another battle in other realm?

- - - Updated - - -

What will a few survivors do against the whole Legion if we couldn't defend our own home with our army agains the Legion ?

They will destroy a few places, kill maybe a bunch of unending demons and will get overwhelmed at some point. How do they eat and drink in the demon world ? How do they do anything without machines, logistics and everything we have on Azeroth ?

Even if they were able to destroy some planet, the legion doesn't care, they will come back because they are infinite and we'll be destroyed for good.

We just can't lose Azeroth because of plot (read Chronicles).

I'm in beta and even tho I'm skipping most of the lore and stuff I know that Azeroth is Titan and Titans are good I guess?
How strong are those Void Lords, could they create something stronger and different than Old Gods?

[ThunderTaco]

I'm in beta and even tho I'm skipping most of the lore and stuff I know that Azeroth is Titan and Titans are good I guess?
How strong are those Void Lords, could they create something stronger and different than Old Gods?

You might want to start using spoilers.

Yes Titans are pretty good, but They are all dead (at least physically) except Sargeras, Azeroth's Titan is our current best hope against Sargeras and the Void Lords. We don't know much about the Void Lords but yes I guess that they can and will create something stronger and different from the Old Golds at some point, specially if we manage to reach them / damage them in the distant future.

[Pull My Finger]

Who said that your character, or every character, died and world was destroyed? What if x number of heroes and important characters could escape to another planet before Legion destroyed Azeroth and there'd a new beginning for example? What happened to space-cows did they all just die? What if we found new super-duper-weapon like we had like that Dragon Soul?

Shit like that happens all the time. The typical "merely a setback" scenario, the enemy that stuns the group and bails at 1%, the city that gets destroyed by a bomb, the lore guy that gets killed or goes corrupt etc. So I don't know what you're actually on about.

I check'd your message history and all that you do is insult every1 in this forum. Have you ever had any fresh and new ideas or though outside of the box? Or wait, don't answer because I don't care about your ideas and toughs.

Oooh, you poor, poor little thingy. Good thing you checked, phew, imagine how wrong that could have turned out if you weren't that careful. The bad guy might have won.

[UnluckyAmateur]

I'm not that deep into the lore but what if in those 10-20 years those Old Gods would kick Legion's ass before they have time to destroy the world?
Old Gods don't want to blow up the planet, right?

No, they just want to corrupt the world soul making it a dark titan so the Void lords can control the universe.

[owbu]

Because WoW is a power fantasy fulfillment generator and not a story driven game. The story only exists in order to get more of that "I won" feeling out of you.
Which is okay, since I think its impossible to tell an intersting story AND be a good mmo of this kind at the same time anyway. There is just too many constraining factors: you cant change the status quo; you have to always end up at the point where the bad guy waits for you in his lair to be killed; the protagonists story has to be vague enough to fit tons of diffrent players with diffrent playstyles;
So "the bad guy is really evil and will destroy EVERYTHING, oh look we beat his superdoom army in all the zones ... oh we beat his "muharhar you can never stop me!" underlings in all the dungeons ...oh we killed him.." is kind of what the structure ofthe game allows.
IF the developers are kind enough to the story people to not tell them that half the content patches they needed to tell the story were removed/replaned.

[Benomatic]

evil wins every time we wipe.

[Crackleslap]

Get some lawful evil winners and have an uprising through the azeroth citizens, trying to reclaim Azeroth with for great reward but suffering great tragedy. (I don't know wtf i am talking about).

[nonameelf]

Weren't they responsible for corrupting him in the first place?

No, not at all.