No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Bun-Bun]

Yeah, he/she is very good at cut pasting responses to suit their needs too. You say something about a direct link, then they cut it out to suit their needs to prove you wrong. It's pretty laughable really, kind of why I stopped talking to them. Either a troll or just someone that thinks they are cleverer than they are.

And you're a hypocrite pushing your opinions on others as fact.

[wing5wong]

Also in the June interview with Ion he admits all this so called engaging content sucked and they regret doing it the way they did.

Not quite what he said - he said they overestimated how quickly they could launch legion, hence the lack of content at the end

[Deleted]

You took those threads and spun them into a completely different thing.

All they say, as have many others in the thread, is that flight detracts from the core gameplay experience blizzard want to offer.

Flight was never advertised as a component of wod. YOU personally made that assumption

I dont know why people continue to butt heads with you.

But they are wrong in this assumption! For the core gameplay experience, you have to LAND to be able to DO ANYTHING.

Heaven, please start thinking!

[rda]

Not quite what he said - he said they overestimated how quickly they could launch legion, hence the lack of content at the end

Even if they launched Legion 6 months earlier it wouldn't have saved much. People quit WoD early. Because there was nothing to do and what there was to do was terribly done. The mistake was not overestimating how quickly they could launch Legion, it was going out with nearly nothing in terms of content. (I mean, we can say that if they followed up with Legion 3-6 months after WoD and everybody knew that it's coming that fast, it'd have been different, but that's a bit ludicrous.)

[Mectrid]

Even if they launched Legion 6 months earlier it wouldn't have saved much. People quit WoD early. Because there was nothing to do and what there was to do was terribly done. The mistake was not overestimating how quickly they could launch Legion, it was going out with nearly nothing in terms of content.

I for one enjoyed my few months WoW break, they did me a lot of good

[wing5wong]

But they are wrong in this assumption! For the core gameplay experience, you have to LAND to be able to DO ANYTHING.

Heaven, please start thinking!

What are you talking about? that is exactly what they want.

Even if they launched Legion 6 months earlier it wouldn't have saved much. People quit WoD early. Because there was nothing to do and what there was to do was terribly done. The mistake was not overestimating how quickly they could launch Legion, it was going out with nearly nothing in terms of content.

What was available was not terribly done at all. The only issue was in terms of pacing.

[rda]

What was available was not terribly done at all. The only issue was in terms of pacing.

It was by far not just pacing. Empty (no interesting gameplay) reputations. Empty everyday routine in garrisons. Ashran (OMG). Etc.

[wing5wong]

It was by far not just pacing. Empty (no interesting gameplay) reputations. Empty everyday routine in garrisons. Ashran (OMG). Etc.

CMs, Mythics, Highmaul, BRF, HFC....
Reps tied to quests made them easy sure. Especially with medallions available as well

[rda]

CMs, Mythics, Highmaul, BRF, HFC....
Reps tied to quests made them easy sure. Especially with medallions available as well

You cite three raids and two difficulty modes for instances as "proof" that there was a lot of interesting content. You are making my point for me.

[wing5wong]

You cite three raids and two difficulty modes for instances. You are making my point for me.

Im really not sure what you want outside of the daily hubs and raids/dungeons that are available in every expansion lol.
More daily hubs? sure, but thats where the launch time overestimation comes into play

[rda]

Im really not sure what you want outside of the daily hubs and raids/dungeons that are available in every expansion lol

I figured, LOL. No, I won't educate you, look for threads that discuss that, I am not going to write a twentieth post describing what it is that got neglected in WoD and what it is that makes the game - and no, that's not your stupid raids.

[wing5wong]

I figured, LOL. No, I won't educate you, look for threads that discuss that, I am not going to write a twentieth post describing what it is that got neglected in WoD apart from your stupid raids.

k. /10chars

[rda]

Just in case, here is our exchange:

Me: Even if they launched Legion 6 months earlier it wouldn't have saved much, people quit WoD early because it had little content and that little content was terribly done.
You: It was not terribly done, it was the issue of pacing.
Me: No, not just pacing, <examples>.
You: But there were three raids and two difficulty modes for instances.
Me: You are making my point for me.
You: I don't know what else you want besides that.
Me: (rolling eyes) I figured you don't know that.
You: k.

Sum total, we spent 8 posts figuring out that you thought WoD was fine because it had three raids. You could have said so from the beginning and then the "k" would have been mine.

I don't think I am going to reply to your posts again, it's not worth spending time to find out that in the end what you have is something utterly stupid.

/shrug

[Deleted]

Problems with your points:
You keep saying MOST DO NOT...yet, less than half the playerbase left during the no flight issue. 10 million at launch. Someone posted numbers showing after a few months it was down roughly 2-3 million, leaving 7-8 mil playing. After no flight, there were still 5.5 million playing on the last released numbers, meaning most players do not in fact care or feel impacted by the issue at all.
Yes, there was a mass leaving at one point, something like 3 million players. I can agree that the majority left from flight being the cause...but as that is less than 1/2 the active players, that is not most.
There's also factors to include that during that time, if following the trend, WoW would have lost roughly another 1 million at that point, as well as players using flight as a reason to make their exit to a game they were already debating leaving because they were unhappy. These are issues that you are unable to recognize and want to pin everything on just 1 reason. Speaking of false assumptions...hmmmm.

No, i do not. You seem unable to read and understand what you did read. I have said multiple times that flight hasn't be the only reason. But it much more influence on the sub number than some of you are ready to admit. Some very funny people even say that no-flight did not have any influence on sub-numbers. And looking at all the facts we know, that is not true at all. There are more hints leading to "big influence" than to "no influence".

On the other side: only half of the active Playerbase gone.... Well there are players the play only instanced content, some don't care. But "not caring about flight" does not equal "want it gone" or "don't want it back". The "not caring crowd" plays the content what ever they want, but even they are influenced by no-flight since you see more people queing for instanced content than venturing out in the world.

Try to tell your fairytales to who ever wants to hear that. But "nobody quit over flight and no-flight had no influence on subs" is completely false. You like to ignore the other half of the story when it doesn't fits your needs, right? Only less than half the playerbase quit (not far lees), but you keep ignoring that the game never lost taht many players within three month of time.

Flight is not the only reason for the drop, but considering how fast Blizzard changed a decision on a essential part of the game (no matter what the hater say, flight has been a selling point for this game many times) it only can be a good chunk of cancelations. It might have been only the last straw that broke the camels back to many of those cancelations, on top of other reasons. But that doesn't make it non existent. But people ignoring that can keep lying to them selves if they want, doesn't change the story.

[Deleted]

CMs, Mythics, Highmaul, BRF, HFC....
Reps tied to quests made them easy sure. Especially with medallions available as well

Guess what - all this content is WITHOUT FLIGHT because it is INSTANCED.

We are talking about the open world, honey. And there, the picture is very dull.

[wing5wong]

Just in case, here is our exchange:

Me: Even if they launched Legion 6 months earlier it wouldn't have saved much, people quit WoD early because it had little content and that little content was terribly done.
You: It was not terribly done, it was the issue of pacing.
Me: No, not just pacing, <examples>.
You: But there were three raids and two difficulty modes for instances.
Me: You are making my point for me.
You: I don't know what else you want besides that.
Me: (rolling eyes) I figured you don't know that.
You: k.

Sum total, we spent 8 posts figuring out that you thought WoD was fine because it had three raids. You could have said so from the beginning and then the "k" would have been mine.

I don't think I am going to reply to your posts again, it's not worth spending time to find out that in the end what you have is something utterly stupid.

/shrug

Except you didnt provide examples of a lack of content.
Ashran was/is fine
Garrisons were an interesting story, offering quest starters, campaign, and so on. it was truly unique in wow so far.
Reps were made too easy bewcause people have an issue with working towards something.

The biggest issue in Legion was pacing, largely caused by the lack of meaningful rewards, due to everything being handed out with VERY little effort needed.
Things shifted to have very little 'downtime' and 100% uptime, then made easier because it "takes too long to do"
My argument was not "WoD was fine because there were 3 raids", at all


You're welcome to find the new content boring and uninteresting, but if you continue to find every piece of new content boring/dull/whatever, then lets be real, maybe you need to try soemthing new. something that has what you want.


- - - Updated - - -

Guess what - all this content is WITHOUT FLIGHT because it is INSTANCED.

We are talking about the open world, honey. And there, the picture is very dull.

Yes because the content was far too rewarding for the little time you needed to spend there.
Its fixed in Legion, you have to do something to get something

[Eapoe]

No, i do not. You seem unable to read and understand what you did read. I have said multiple times that flight hasn't be the only reason. But it much more influence on the sub number than some of you are ready to admit. Some very funny people even say that no-flight did not have any influence on sub-numbers. And looking at all the facts we know, that is not true at all. There are more hints leading to "big influence" than to "no influence".

On the other side: only half of the active Playerbase gone.... Well there are players the play only instanced content, some don't care. But "not caring about flight" does not equal "want it gone" or "don't want it back". The "not caring crowd" plays the content what ever they want, but even they are influenced by no-flight since you see more people queing for instanced content than venturing out in the world.

Try to tell your fairytales to who ever wants to hear that. But "nobody quit over flight and no-flight had no influence on subs" is completely false. You like to ignore the other half of the story when it doesn't fits your needs, right? Only less than half the playerbase quit (not far lees), but you keep ignoring that the game never lost taht many players within three month of time.

Flight is not the only reason for the drop, but considering how fast Blizzard changed a decision on a essential part of the game (no matter what the hater say, flight has been a selling point for this game many times) it only can be a good chunk of cancelations. It might have been only the last straw that broke the camels back to many of those cancelations, on top of other reasons. But that doesn't make it non existent. But people ignoring that can keep lying to them selves if they want, doesn't change the story.

You realize your post contains a lot of "not" information, right? You literally said the same things I have said but with your own spin to make them seem unique and to try and prove your point.
You are quoting me with a response that quite literally has very little to do with what I stated. Are you hoping no one will actually read it? I stated the majority that left during that time was influenced by flight, to which you try and reply I stated no one left from flight. I specifically state people left for different reasons, again, stating that the majority was from flight; to which you state I ignore the fact so many people left.
At one point you even imply that the 5.5 million people that are left "only do instanced content," and "are influenced by no flight as the are doing instanced content more." If this were indeed true, then there would be no profession items on the AH, as no one would take the time to run and get the fel bloods needed for the newer items. People would not have been out fishing fel mouth frenzy when it was a good alternative to food. People would not have been in Tanaan killing rares and doing dailies to get flight later or even to get Apexis crystals for upgrades. This makes you seem more delusional to the facts than you imply I am.
So, again, what was the point of this post? Maybe you should have taken a page from Bun's book and cut/paste the post you quoted me on, as anyone who reads both posts show you are arguing a point that doesn't exist, as I never said flight wasn't a problem for people who left, but I did state that the majority of people who stayed didn't care about flight gone because they either enjoyed the game as it was, didn't care at all, or have commitments to people in a guild.

[Deleted]

Yes because the content was far too rewarding for the little time you needed to spend there.
Its fixed in Legion, you have to do something to get something

You are confusing some things here. First, there is content, which simply is not enjoyable without flight (archaeology, for example). Second, bad content can be improved by flight, if you like flying. Third, good content can be worsened by no-flight, if the circumstances are so (spending much more time travelling than actually doing the intended content).

Do you like standing in queues before you get to your ride? Flight paths and extended travel are just like that.

[wing5wong]

You are confusing some things here. First, there is content, which simply is not enjoyable without flight (archaeology, for example). Second, bad content can be improved by flight, if you like flying. Third, good content can be worsened by no-flight, if the circumstances are so (spending much more time travelling than actually doing the intended content).

Do you like standing in queues before you get to your ride? Flight paths and extended travel are just like that.

You're confusing things here.
Content that sucks without flight needs to be improved.
Hence the changes to professions.

There hasnt been a single time i used a flight path and thought, man ive been on here way too long.

[Deleted]

You're confusing things here.
Content that sucks without flight needs to be improved.
Hence the changes to professions.

There hasnt been a single time i used a flight path and thought, man ive been on here way too long.

Well, I constanty want to alt-tab out of the game while on the flight path. I would be OK with no flying for some time when we woul have short loading screens instead of being dragged along and not able to do anything but chat. And if I want to chat, I rather go into Facebook, because I have more friends there than in WoW.

I also hate the convoluted area design they have been promoting lately, where you never know if your mount would be able to go up a hill or not, because most of the time there are no visual keys for that matter. Also, it's a totally unreliable experience - sometimes your mount can scale a hill of a certain steepness, and sometimes it cannot. You constantly have to memorise paths in areas where you theoretically would not have to do such things if terrain design was consistent and reliable.

And don't let me start with the awful implementation of jump & run mechanics...

The ground experience regarding movement is very bad. Any other MMO I have played handles this way better. While I still would have want to fly sometimes in LotRO, Neverwinter or GW2, just for the pure aesthetical reason, I did not miss it there as much as I constantly do in WoW in no-fly zones. All these games have fast travel options. LotRO even has the option to dismount AT ANY TIME when you choose not the fast way, but the whole road. So, if you do pass a point of interest, you can immediately engage it. People even actively use this in the game - let the steed carry you for some part of the road, and then move freely.

There has been no improvement on the travel system in WoW besides shortening the hearthstone CD if you have a guild. As long as we have had flight, it was not that apparent - and when I have personal flight, I only use flight paths if I have to make a bathroom break or fetch me a drink. But when flight is not in the game, all the outdated things punch you in the face.