Democratic sit in, Is it gonna work?

[Jinpachi]

I'd rather see a battle royale between the two sides to pass or fail the law. Thin out the aging encumbent political population and earn great ratings at the same time! Pay per view that shit.

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No intelligent person is saying more gun laws will STOP shootings. But only an idiot would think it wouldn't significantly lower the number of incidents. Shootings will never be stopped. But the number of incidents can be greatly decreased by simply making tougher laws. That is a FACT. Unfortunately many Americans heads are so far up their asses they are licking their tonsils. Some of you are such sad individuals that owning a shiny metal killing machine to make up for your lacking manhood takes precedence over saving the lives of many.

What's so wrong with laws that allow you to just own a couple rifles/shotguns that have locked, locked away and only used for hunting? Or making more hoops to jump through to own those weapons? Do that many of you have something to hide from background checks? Are that many of you Americans really that terrified of your countrymen? Is your country really that terrible that you need a .45 close by?

No, its not a fact. It's only an opinion. And what's wrong with the laws? Nothing, if you're used to living under a monarch. Those of us who would rather make our own decisions will stay armed. Good luck changing it.

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No intelligent person is saying more gun laws will STOP shootings. But only an idiot would think it wouldn't significantly lower the number of incidents. Shootings will never be stopped. But the number of incidents can be greatly decreased by simply making tougher laws. That is a FACT. Unfortunately many Americans heads are so far up their asses they are licking their tonsils. Some of you are such sad individuals that owning a shiny metal killing machine to make up for your lacking manhood takes precedence over saving the lives of many.

What's so wrong with laws that allow you to just own a couple rifles/shotguns that have locked, locked away and only used for hunting? Or making more hoops to jump through to own those weapons? Do that many of you have something to hide from background checks? Are that many of you Americans really that terrified of your countrymen? Is your country really that terrible that you need a .45 close by?

No intelligent person is trying to enact more gun control legislation. fix the people, the "gun problem" will solve itself.

[Mytheros]

WHAT?! Reading responses (para phrases not direct quotes) "Well at least it was a nice try"....."not gonna happen a nice thought though"....."it was a positive thing at least"

Holy crap on a cracker is this country in trouble.

You people realize the whole watch list thing they are trying to pass (which "allegedly" was the original reason for this sit in) is essentially an attack on Due Process right? You all know that correct? You know Due Process , at least currently, one of our rights as US citizens granted by the US constitution?

Anyone and everyone thinking "Well hey I don't want mean people that make it on a watch list to have guns....what's the problem with that"....that's where everyone is stoping their thought process ...all they read in their head "Bad people would not be able to purchase guns if they are on this watch list".

If you dug deeper there would be no due process. That doesn't bother anyone? In other words, so you understand what that means....You can effectivity be minding your own business...going about your life....working...taking care of your kids having fun with your friends....for whatever reason , as is your 2nd amendment right to do so, you want to get a gun for any number of valid reasons -- home defense, hunting, target shooting (it is a legit hobby btw..target shooting is actually quite fun) but you are denied the right to get your gun. When you ask the gun store owner tells you your name came up on the Terror Watch List.

But you think to yourself -- "How can that be? I'm a law abiding citizen, I don't even have a speed ticket on my record"......

That's what happens when there is no due process folks....it means the government doesn't have to prove your guilt beyond their own standard. Perhaps your name just happens to be extremely close to a wanted fugitive, just close enough that one small clerical error and your file is mistaken with a hardened criminal.

What happened to innocent until guilty? What happened to a trial by your peers before being convicted?

So now in this country because of social justice warriors and very low attention spans of our youths who only read buzz words or head lines we are just going to lay down for our government with the "Our master knows best" mentality?

My god and responsible gun ownership scares you people more than this? WoW....

[Gorgodeus]

So, you're saying I dont have to pay my local taxes? I dont have to abide by any local law? You're a smart one.

Show me a state law that says you do not have to pay local taxes. I will be waiting.

Again, local laws do not supercede state law, so the 40k claim is nothing more than BS hyperbole.

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What?

Why do you get to invalidate stuff? Can I invalidate stuff? Can I just say that Federal laws don't count since States and cities have been known to not enforce certain federal laws?

State laws take precedence over any local laws. Fact.

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Isn't weed still illegal according to the feds?

Yes it is. They currently choose not to enforce it in states that have legalized it.

[Mytheros]

No intelligent person is saying more gun laws will STOP shootings. But only an idiot would think it wouldn't significantly lower the number of incidents. Shootings will never be stopped. But the number of incidents can be greatly decreased by simply making tougher laws. That is a FACT. Unfortunately many Americans heads are so far up their asses they are licking their tonsils. Some of you are such sad individuals that owning a shiny metal killing machine to make up for your lacking manhood takes precedence over saving the lives of many.

What's so wrong with laws that allow you to just own a couple rifles/shotguns that have locked, locked away and only used for hunting? Or making more hoops to jump through to own those weapons? Do that many of you have something to hide from background checks? Are that many of you Americans really that terrified of your countrymen? Is your country really that terrible that you need a .45 close by?

Where are you making this stuff up from? "Only an idiot would think it wouldn't SIGNIFICANTLY lower the number of incidents"...... An overwhelming amount of violent crime committed with a fire arm is done with illegally obtain weapons. Comparatively speaking the number of LEGAL firearms involved in violent crime is strikingly small.
Tell yourself what ever "warm blanket of words" you need to feel better about the subject, but if you stopped 100% all legal firearm sales tomorrow. Violent crime involving guns would NOT go down by SIGNIFICANT measures....there's data our own country has collected over the years that even back that up. The fact is the largest % , by a lot I might add, of crimes committed with guns are guns that were not obtained via legal means.

Its funny you start out your post with a sideways insult to people's intelligence who just don't understand your way -- yet reading down further your writing literally exudes naiveté I haven't see in quite a long while on these forums....

"Do that many of you have something to hide from background checks?" -- A) What are you talking about here? Who brained washed you that responsible gun owners are against background checks? Ever single gun owner I know -- has no problem whatsoever with filling out all required paper work, getting finger printed and submitting to a properly administered background check.... that's what LEGAL and RESPONSIBLE gun owner's do you see.

"Are that many of you Americans really that terrified of your countrymen?" -- B) First there's more reasons people want guns than just protection, though it is the prime reason. There's a whole sport that is target shooting, people do it merely for the fun of it. There's competitions, some with pretty nice cash prizes if you get big enough into the sport. Then there is hunting, this should be self explanatory -- personally I don't like hunting, therefore I don't hunt. Finally there's people that just collect them as if someone likes collecting classic cars - I know a couple people that are collectors I work with one of them every day Mon-Fri in fact.

Anyway moving on beyond the reasons......You have to be terrified to want to be prepared to defend your home and family? Oh WAIT right...nevermind...you are the "that's why they have cops" type of people right? Ok Einstein what happens if someone breaks into your house in the dead of night packing a loaded gun...how do you know that guy is alone? How do you know there aren't several guys with at least a gun each? You think the cops will get there in time to save the day? You are willing to put your child's protection in the hands of chance? How exactly does the fact that some people are scared of their own shadows and because they are unwilling to get educated on the proper facts of safe, legal and responsible gun ownership -- I'm supposed to surrender the ability to protect my love ones just so people like you feel better at night? yeah no . sorry.

Luck favors the prepared.

[Spectral]

Some of you are such sad individuals that owning a shiny metal killing machine to make up for your lacking manhood takes precedence over saving the lives of many.

Do you actually think anyone that's presently fence-sitting finds this rhetoric compelling? Perhaps you're just overcompensating for something.

[Rudkobing]

It might work.

[Derpleton]

So glad that we're paying these people to do nothing.

[Gorgodeus]

In case you can't read. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

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What does freedom of expression have to do with staying on topic on a conversation?

Go study hard and you might learn what "regulated" means.

[enragedgorilla]

No intelligent person is saying more gun laws will STOP shootings. But only an idiot would think it wouldn't significantly lower the number of incidents. Shootings will never be stopped. But the number of incidents can be greatly decreased by simply making tougher laws. That is a FACT. Unfortunately many Americans heads are so far up their asses they are licking their tonsils. Some of you are such sad individuals that owning a shiny metal killing machine to make up for your lacking manhood takes precedence over saving the lives of many.

What's so wrong with laws that allow you to just own a couple rifles/shotguns that have locked, locked away and only used for hunting? Or making more hoops to jump through to own those weapons? Do that many of you have something to hide from background checks? Are that many of you Americans really that terrified of your countrymen? Is your country really that terrible that you need a .45 close by?

And this is why there is ZERO meaningful,productive conversation .
Insult,bully,state opinions as "facts" then when all else fails, be condescending.

I own different firearms for different reasons.
I own firearms because the police are an average of 10-15 min away from my suburban condo in California , the anti gun paradise.
It is a fact based on the reality of things and the willingness to take my protection and security into my own hands ....not hoping that some Govt. official will show up to protect me.(I also have other pieces of a "security" matrix as part of a protection plan...not JUST a firearm)

I also work for a PD and know what a response time IS in reality and there is a difference between when they show up outside and when they "come in the door" if there is an armed intruder inside with potential hostages.So that 10-15 min response time ...doesn't mean they are standing next to you cuffing the bad person.

[Direpenguin]

People are put on the no fly list for a REASON that doesn't involve being a normal, good person. Does that make any sense to you?

You mean like that 6 year old kid who was on the list because his name was the same as some suspected terrorist?

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Go study hard and you might learn what "regulated" means.

Go learn how an entire amendment doesn't hinge on the one word you want to cherry pick out of it.

[Mentia]

Just bought 2 lower AR receivers. Looking into getting that SIG MCX carbine next. Might be time for another gun safe too.

[Spectral]

Go study hard and you might learn what "regulated" means.

What do you think "regulation" means in this context as used in the 18th century? A helpful hint would be that it's not the same as in modern parlance.

[Gorgodeus]

Go learn how an entire amendment doesn't hinge on the one word you want to cherry pick out of it.

I guess Constitutional Law experts probably know a hell of a lot more about the matter than you do.

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Notice how their is a comma between the two clauses. This represent a new idea or thought. We learned that in 2nd grade.

See above.

[Spectral]

I guess Constitutional Law experts probably know a hell of a lot more about the matter than you do.

Definitely. I know I'm not one to believe my lyin' eyes about the emperor's lack of clothes when there's an expert on hand to explain to me the finery of the silks that are used and the intricacy of the embroidering. Anytime I start thinking I'm capable of parsing a straightforward sentence, I slap my forehead and make sure I ask a Very Serious Person to do it for me instead.

[Gorgodeus]

What do you think "regulation" means in this context as used in the 18th century? A helpful hint would be that it's not the same as in modern parlance.

Sorry, but The Constitution is considered a "living" document, meaning it is open to interpretation fitting modern times.

[Spectral]

Sorry, but The Constitution is considered a "living" document, meaning it is open to interpretation fitting modern times.

Yes, I'm well aware that one must simply look closely at the emperor's beads to see that everything is exactly as it should be. Ignore that sentence that has a pretty obvious meaning - we can always come up with a new meaning to fit changing values. Those sentences don't really mean anything. Besides, it's the current year.

[Ivanstone]

Where are you making this stuff up from? "Only an idiot would think it wouldn't SIGNIFICANTLY lower the number of incidents"...... An overwhelming amount of violent crime committed with a fire arm is done with illegally obtain weapons. Comparatively speaking the number of LEGAL firearms involved in violent crime is strikingly small.

Define illegally obtained. You probably think that the "thugs" steal their guns which they then use to commit more crimes.

Or more likely some hobo walks into a gun shop or gun show and easily passed the background check to purchase an armful of guns. He then re-sells those guns to some "friends". Probably for a Big Mac and a bottle of Thunderbird.

Of course this would be easy to track if we could use this fascinating new device called a "computer" to track all of these purchases instead of NRA-mandated paper. Tradition is important I guess.

[Mytheros]

Define illegally obtained. You probably think that the "thugs" steal their guns which they then use to commit more crimes.

Or more likely some hobo walks into a gun shop or gun show and easily passed the background check to purchase an armful of guns. He then re-sells those guns to some "friends". Probably for a Big Mac and a bottle of Thunderbird.

Of course this would be easy to track if we could use this fascinating new device called a "computer" to track all of these purchases instead of NRA-mandated paper. Tradition is important I guess.

Dude you are ranting away at facts - I'm just the messenger you take issue with the crime stats that show most violent crime committed with a fire arm is with illegal fire arms, that isn't isn't with me...its with the people that do violent crime with fire arms first and foremost and secondly if you think its BS how the government collects and reports their data take your beef up with the ATF, FBI and DoJ. Actually while you are at it probably various states could use a talking to as well on the subject.

How do you define illegally obtained ? Its a gun that's not LEGALLY obtained. We are talking laws here not your emotions or your moral eye rolls of what is right , wrong , ridiculous or otherwise. The term is ILLEGAL, as in NOT LEGAL. Again that goes back to how the data is reported, so you have issues with people using stats of "Illegal obtained firearms in a crime" while you are like "Yeah but that could mean a hobo walks into a gun shop and passes the background check (btw that scenario can't happen.....wouldn't the hobo be poor and/or homeless? How can he afford the gun and the background checks, finger printing ,etc.? How does a homeless person establish residency for the registration of the weapon? I'm guessing if hes jonesy for a Big Mac and a bottle of Thunderbird he probably doesn't have the coin to do all that in the first place...but whatever lets go with your fairy tale scenario...) ...so the hobo gets the gun and re-sells them to some friends......

True. There should be a national requirement for all gun purchases to at least require a Federal Transfer form (right now only dealers need one). But that's something I've been saying for ages so i actually agree with you in that. Though in a state like NJ, you can't even "private" sell a gun LEGALLY to someone without a permit - state law. With handguns you also need a separate permit for each individual purchase.

That aside though it boggles my mind how anyone would sell a gun to a stranger without using an FFL and sacrificing a few dollars for the back ground check to go through...and of course ...don't forget to collect a receipt for the purchase as well.

Lastly just so you know all people that believe in 2nd amendment rights doesn't mean we DEFACTO bow down to all that the NRA says.....maybe its unfair of me to throw that criticism on you but how you wrote your comment I took as almost saying "And you NRA types if you only use a computer to keep a national database..." I think a national database is a good thing.

[Logwyn]

Vote for the opposing party. Then next time, vote for your parties new guy. Or, participate in the primaries.

Voting for the other party is as bad as voting for them. You realize there's really no difference between republicans and democrats. You are just picking a different way to get screwed..

[Spectral]

Voting for the other party is as bad as voting for them. You realize there's really no difference between republicans and democrats. You are just picking a different way to get screwed..

There is, obviously, a chasm between the two on gun policies.