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  1. #61
    Legendary! Pony Soldier's Avatar
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    The couple finally sought medical treatment after their son stopped breathing, but he never regained consciousness and was taken off life support five days after he was hospitalized.

    David Stephan blamed his son’s death on emergency crews, who he said lacked the proper equipment in the ambulance to provide oxygen to the toddler after attempting CPR, although he didn’t specify which devices could have prevented the child from going eight minutes without oxygen.
    This is what got me. First of all you're going to blame the paramedics for the child's death even though he stopped breathing BEFORE they started using their pea-brains to use actual medical help. Then they go and say the Paramedics didn't have the right equipment as if their maple syrup and other "natural remedies" and berries were proper equipment. Jesus fuck, how stupid can you be?
    - "If you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black" - Jo Bodin, BLM supporter
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  2. #62
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nfinitii View Post
    So what ur suggesting we require a license to have children now? Y stop there? We can control every aspect of raising a child, what religion they r, when and what foods they eat, how they r disciplined. The we can have them take a test and we will place them in a job of our choosing and decide who they marry and if they r worthy enough to have children...
    Many parents shouldn´t be so. So yes. Any perfectly normal person would pass such "test", but obviously parents like those would not. Is not that simple but it would be worth it...

  3. #63
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    Maple syrup? Really? What kind of moron sees a sick kid and thinks to themselves "liquid sugar will surely fix it!"
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  4. #64
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    I don't believe in forced vaccination, but this natural remedy shit is insane. These nuts belong in jail.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    I literally don't understand how it's legal in the US.
    Religious nuts in government passing laws that prevent other religious nuts from being held accountable for their actions or lack thereof.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
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  6. #66
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    To me, homeopathy was just the next logical step of corruption for the people spouting that an 'all natural' lifestyle is the healthiest. It went from eating organic foods and all that garbage, to suddenly drugs are bad and here chew on this grass it'll cure cancer. It's complete fucking bullshit.

    I really wish these fuckwits got more than 5 years. And if they try this shit again, the death penalty. It may be your child, but its health or lack thereof can potentially ruin the health of everyone around them. So by proxy, YOU are only responsible for getting your child to the hospital and getting them the PROPER medications for whatever ails them. INCLUDING VACCINES. Fuck, we've been getting vaccinated for DECADES, why are nincompoops like these people suddenly sprouting out of the woodwork, claiming they're bad? Crawl back into your holes, please.
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    Politicians put their hand on the BIBLE and swore to uphold the CONSTITUTION. They did not put their hand on the CONSTITUTION and swear to uphold the BIBLE.
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    Except maybe Morgan Freeman. That man could convince God to be an atheist with that voice of his . . .
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    If your girlfriend is a girl and you're a guy, your kid is destined to be some sort of half girl/half guy abomination.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by endersblade View Post
    Fuck, we've been getting vaccinated for DECADES, why are nincompoops like these people suddenly sprouting out of the woodwork, claiming they're bad? Crawl back into your holes, please.
    Nothing "suddenly" about it really. Anti-vaxxers have been around as long as vaccines have and their arguments haven't changed to any meaningful degree in that time.

    Warning : Above post may contain snark and/or sarcasm. Try reparsing with the /s argument before replying.
    What the world has learned is that America is never more than one election away from losing its goddamned mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Tayler
    Political conservatism is just atavism with extra syllables and a necktie.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Honestly, I think they're pretty evil for letting their child die after trying to treat him with magic pills when they knew real medicine could have done it...they just refused to use it.
    What evidence do you have that "they knew" their remedies were bullshit and that real medicine would have worked? The problem with fanatics is that they tend to believe the stuff they espouse even if to other people it is obviously a load of nonsense. That does not make them evil, nor anything close to evil.

    I am not arguing that these people are ok, or shouldn't be dealt with by society, simply that I don't think their motives can be ascribed to "evil" so much as arrogance and stupidity blended into a dangerous mix. They probably belong in a psychiatric hospital and their children put into the care of sane people, whereas evil people deserve life imprisonment.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    What evidence do you have that "they knew" their remedies were bullshit and that real medicine would have worked? The problem with fanatics is that they tend to believe the stuff they espouse even if to other people it is obviously a load of nonsense. That does not make them evil, nor anything close to evil.

    I am not arguing that these people are ok, or shouldn't be dealt with by society, simply that I don't think their motives can be ascribed to "evil" so much as arrogance and stupidity blended into a dangerous mix. They probably belong in a psychiatric hospital and their children put into the care of sane people, whereas evil people deserve life imprisonment.
    Well, when things got bad enough they reached out to modern medicine instead of what they had been doing...

  10. #70
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    homeopathy has its place. For treating any serious illness of course not. If you have an upset stomach eat ginger to settle it instead of tums, if you're not a big caffeine person it can be used to treat mild headaches. Sore or strep throat gargle salt water. Those are all homeopathic remedies.

    These people are obviously stupid and there is a reason medicine exists, if your appendix has burst go to the hospital, if you are a little stuffy from the flu put some eucalyptus in a humidifier

  11. #71
    As a local to this story, they got off light.
    "You six-piece Chicken McNobody."
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    You are a legend thats why.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Many parents shouldn´t be so. So yes. Any perfectly normal person would pass such "test", but obviously parents like those would not. Is not that simple but it would be worth it...
    First off, it's not even possible to control who has kids and who doesn't. How do u even implement something like that? u would literally have to remove basic rights of human beings to be able to prevent ppl from having kids. Well she is pregnant and doesn't have a license to be? What do u do abort the kid? Take it away as soon as it's born and hope someone adopts it? These things r worse than just leaving the child in the hands of the patent b/c u don't know if they will be good or bad.

    Best u can hope for is to educate ppl to the best of ur ability, and hopefully parents will educate their kids properly as well. Besides, there r kids in other countries in worse conditions and ur worried about a hand full of ppl who r stupid in this country.

    I don't even think they should be jailed, they have 3 other children, fine the parents and make them take parenting classes, re-evaulate the parents when everything is done and then decide if they get to keep the children. The children could never get adopted or find a home, which is just as bad as having bad parents.

    The natural thing has gone overboard, like everything else when u hit an extreme it's bad. But I can understand about vaccination, every generation gets pumped with more and more vaccines. Some of them r needed, and some I'm sure r not.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    As a local to this story, they got off light.
    Serious question: How believable is it that someone might go to a naturopath clinic such as the one that featured in the evidence of this trial and talk to someone who uses the title "Dr" and that someone would then think they are dealing with a form of bona fide "healthcare" rather than a very clean "headshop" that sells crystals and other mumbo jumbo? Is it feasible someone could do so in good faith if the needle was bent to "total wingnut" on their worldview meter? Or would you have to be contrary prick to buy into it at all, even allowing for stupidity.

    It's hard to tell from the online presence the clinic has but if the business front on google is a decent representation of what such businesses look like there I'd say it looks a lot like some GP/Pharmacy places might look in some places around the US (I've never been to Canada so I have no idea how those establishments are typically housed).

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    What evidence do you have that "they knew" their remedies were bullshit and that real medicine would have worked? The problem with fanatics is that they tend to believe the stuff they espouse even if to other people it is obviously a load of nonsense. That does not make them evil, nor anything close to evil.

    I am not arguing that these people are ok, or shouldn't be dealt with by society, simply that I don't think their motives can be ascribed to "evil" so much as arrogance and stupidity blended into a dangerous mix. They probably belong in a psychiatric hospital and their children put into the care of sane people, whereas evil people deserve life imprisonment.
    The fact they turned to modern medicine after their remedies didn't work and their son lost consciousness. I also find it incredibly difficult to believe either parent wasn't aware their methods weren't working on their child. You know your child, every aspect of them (I have two myself), so them claiming that they thought it was working...when he wasn't actually getting better, they had to have been aware that their child was not getting back to normal and was not feeling better. If they were truly oblivious to their child's condition and thought their medicine was working.... he's better off now.

    Fanatics are "evil" IMO, due to how they blatantly disregard common knowledge, spout off and live under conspiracy theories, and poison the minds of people by feeding them lies and information that meets their needs and agenda, which usually does not include the well being of anyone except themselves or those of subscribe to their particular brand of crazy. These people knew modern medicine could or would work and chose to not use it until it was too late.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    There's one part of this article that makes me laugh and that's the stupidity of these fucked up parents.
    Unfortunately such stupidity is more common than you might believe -- and those who suffer are the children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, homeopaths in the places that regulate and accept them that is, have a code. And the code is exceedingly strict when it comes to kids; do not attemp to treat accute illnesses on minors, send them to a pediatrician immediately.
    In other words, even homeopaths themselves know that their shit is a fraud?

  16. #76
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    In reply to my question:

    What evidence do you have that "they knew" their remedies were bullshit and that real medicine would have worked?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    The fact they turned to modern medicine after their remedies didn't work and their son lost consciousness.
    This fact does not prove anything of the sort. It does confirm that they don't have zero faith in real medicine. It doesn't prove that they believe their remedies are bullshit. It's quite possible that they believed their medicine was fine, but when faced with a child who is not breathing, you tend to do whatever you think might help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    I also find it incredibly difficult to believe either parent wasn't aware their methods weren't working on their child. You know your child, every aspect of them (I have two myself), so them claiming that they thought it was working...when he wasn't actually getting better, they had to have been aware that their child was not getting back to normal and was not feeling better. If they were truly oblivious to their child's condition and thought their medicine was working.... he's better off now.
    As a parent myself, I can, to a certain extent, empathise with their account of what happened. First time my kids (we have twins) had a high temperature both my wife and I got very worried, called the Paed and rushed across there immediately. The doctor looked at them, told us to relax, prescribed some paracetamol and 12 hours later the kids were already on the mend. Over the next 9 years our kids have had many minor illnesses, as all kids do, involving many high temperatures and runny noses, etc. No parent can go running off to the doctor for every little sniffle. The best you can do is hope that when something actually serious hits them, that you recognise it early enough to go to the doctor before any serious consequences occur. Most of the time this works out. But every now and again a parent will mistake a very serious ailment for something less serious and as a result not take action that, in hindsight, should have been taken.

    That being said, in this case, the child was sick for 2 weeks. I agree that a rational parent would have taken their child to a doctor after a day or two of the child not getting better. But I think it is safe to say that these parents are not that rational. They are clearly delusional, and based on what I have read about this case, narcissistic personality disordered. But that does not mean they are evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    Fanatics are "evil" IMO, due to how they blatantly disregard common knowledge, spout off and live under conspiracy theories, and poison the minds of people by feeding them lies and information that meets their needs and agenda, which usually does not include the well being of anyone except themselves or those of subscribe to their particular brand of crazy.
    Blatant disregard for common knowledge and spouting off and living under conspiracy theories can be ascribed to many things: Ignorance, stupidity, delusions of grandeur, a narcissistic personality disorder (among others).
    Secondly, most fanatics who try to poison the minds of people with their crazy ideas often do so out of genuine care for others' wellbeing and genuinely believe the shit they are espousing. The fact that they are crazy and often end up endangering those they are trying to help is ironic, but not evil.

    Evil would be someone knowingly lying in order to derive some benefit. For example a sociopath would happily sell maple syrup with promises of it's medicinal virtue to naive idiots and then feel nothing for the fact that it is endangering lives. But a sociopath wouldn't knowingly give their own child a medicine they know is a sham. A sociopath would pretend that they are giving their child the maple syrup while actually making sure the child is getting (what they believe to be) the best medical attention possible, and then give all the credit to the maple syrup.

    Sorry, but the only rational explanation for this tragedy is that the parents are idiots. They genuinely believed they were doing the best they could for their child and when they try to convince others to do the same, it's borne of the same delusional beliefs.

    It makes them idiots
    It makes them dangerous
    It makes them a menace society
    But it does not make them evil.

    Look, I get what you're saying, and I realise I am probably arguing semantics here, but I think it's a pertinent distinction because understanding human behaviour isn't nearly as simple as "Person X is evil, Person Y is good". The reason we like to abstract our arguments down to this level is because then we can feel safe. The logic being that if we eliminate evil people from the world, then we'll be safe (and deep down we all believe that we'll know an evil person when we see them). Alternatively, if we are "good" (ie not evil) then our kids won't die from this sort of thing. And I think that is likely the trap that these idiots fell into. They aren't evil, so they believed their actions would have a good outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katchii View Post
    These people knew modern medicine could or would work and chose to not use it until it was too late.
    Why would you assume that? All the evidence points to the fact that these are nutcases. They are not rational human beings. You cannot assume that they know or understand anything that a regular person would take for granted.

    Honestly, I think, based on all accounts, that they genuinely believed that their alternative medicine was superior. I think they had (and probably still have) delusions of grandeur regarding their competence in dealing with medical matters. Of course I think they're idiots and way too arrogant for their (or their children's) own good and as such their other children are probably safer not being under their care. But that doesn't make them evil.

  17. #77
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    why people make kids only to kill them later is beyond me.
    Accidents and tragedies happen, ok, but "experimenting" with natural remedy on their own children. Jesus!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    Unfortunately such stupidity is more common than you might believe -- and those who suffer are the children.
    Yep I feel the same way. I just can't fathom how people can be so delusional though, at the cost of some kid who probably is too young to speak up.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    Yep I feel the same way. I just can't fathom how people can be so delusional though, at the cost of some kid who probably is too young to speak up.
    one possible explanation

  20. #80
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    You know what is just as bad as these stupid parents? The father of David Stephan is a convicted criminal who was found guilty of fraud for selling a bunch of placebo medicines and marketing them as alternate medicines. The whole family is fucked in the head and keep trying to pass the blame for their own ignorance and arrogance on the media for their kids death.

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