BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

I'm not disagreeing with any of your points. Merely pointing out that while things can do terrible, we could become the Ethiopia of Europe. Or, we could become a powerful, economic machine. Or something in the middle. We just don't know yet, and I don't believe for a moment we're going to collapse on ourselves, but, I could be totally wrong.

You're still going to lose against Iceland!

[Deleted]

But are they really willing to force those countries who might consider leaving to pick up the bill because they don't want a good trade with the UK? That could just as equally push them to more "independence" votes. It's a tough call the EU & Negotiators is going to have to make.

I believe they are. Why? If not then they may lose other countries and thus be in an even worse situation. Sometimes you have to choose lesser evil.

[Hyve]

Cameron only agreed to a future referendum in the general elections to further his own political career.

Can we all agree that, no matter what else, it's a good thing that we've managed to get rid of Cameron in all of this at least?

Politicians do this all the time, and considering his political career is now over, I doubt he did it solely on that basis. Not to mention of course that just because we called his bluff, 50%+ of the nation want to leave. Whatever comes of this, democratically, the system works.

PS: I quite like Cameron. He's a good Prime Minsiter.

[Vankrys]

You're still going to lose against Iceland!

you mean england might leave the euro 2016

[Deleted]

I don't care about share market response, they will go back up, thing will stabilize. Yes UK can probably do fine outside, the question is will EU make an exemple out of it, Switzerland and norway were never a part of EU, they said no, they didn't quit, if EU doesn't want to bleed to death they will have to cauterize the wound by showing the consequences of leaving, and that is probably not good for UK. I don't think UK will get destroyed, i just think that they were better in than out, that being outside of a huge free market in such a globalise world where no one is self sufficient is not good for them, especialy because they said ''fuck you''. Don't get me wrong, i don't think switzerland should join europe, but if they were in I would vote no to trying to get out.

Good point. I mean le pen already asked for a referendum and so did many. Got to keep euroscepticism checked.

[Hyve]

I believe they are. Why? If not then they may lose other countries and thus be in an even worse situation. Sometimes you have to choose lesser evil.

Very true, but as I said, make the deal too bad, and the other countries have to foot the bill, we trade more with China, Africa, US and other areas rather than the EU. EU nations have to foot the bill a lot more, and with Turkey joining, immigration grows and Right-Wing parties grow in popularity, and then more nations slowly lean towards leaving.

That's why these deals are important. A balance is going to be needed. Good for both teams, but not too good that there is any concerns.

[Draco-Onis]

We're not going to get a deal so shit it doesn't work, because remember, we both need each other. With a trade deal too made, the UK just stalls on Article 50, until something better comes along, and in the mean time the UK becomes a pain in the EU, causing all sorts of hassle. The EU will need to give a good deal to keep trade open, but not too good that other nations consider leaving too.

I do believe the EU has the option to kick Britain out since you voted out not 100% on that though. The UK will not get a better deal since you have no leverage. Don't get me wrong they won't give you a deal so horrible that your economy will collapse but it is foolish to think that the UK will get to keep any membership benefits not to mention punitive actions that would be taken.

[Daljo]

3/4 of the british youth (19-24) voted for remaining in the EU, while the 50 years old and more have voted majoritarly to leave. It is said that uk faces hard times to rebuild a great UK, but it's the younger population that will have to face the hardship of rebuilding the UK.

You mean the people with double, if not triple, the life experience of today's youth? The same seniors who have been both in and out of the EU in their life time and are in a much better position to make decisions?

Of course 3/4 of the youth would vote to remain in the EU, they've known nothing else.

[padie]

Stocks always carry risks. But our Banks are secure, due to new Legislations & Laws, and with the Bank of England prepared to put already £250 Billion (and more if needed) into the economy to keep it going, I don't think we'll see it stay too low for too long.



We're not going to get a deal so shit it doesn't work, because remember, we both need each other. With a trade deal too made, the UK just stalls on Article 50, until something better comes along, and in the mean time the UK becomes a pain in the EU, causing all sorts of hassle. The EU will need to give a good deal to keep trade open, but not too good that other nations consider leaving too.

Both need each other...

GB's GDP is 17% of the EU. But 50% of its trade is with the EU.
EU would recover if GB would sink in the ocean. GB without EU...not so much.

[Elegiac]

I don't think you get that people have a right NOT to vote just as much as they have a right to vote. Nobody said a majority of the population, they are saying a majority of the voters. Just like if Trump wins the "majority" of the country didn't vote for him, the majority of VOTERS did.

Which is, in essence, why referenda are beyond stupid. To say nothing of the fact that the Leavers are mostly older people.

[Vankrys]

You mean the people with double, if not triple, the life experience of today's youth? The same seniors who have been both in and out of the EU in their life time and are in a much better position to make decisions?

Of course 3/4 of the youth would vote to remain in the EU, they've known nothing else.

like i said, for better or worse, the youth of england will be stuck with a decision they haven't made.
Let's hope older people knows best, but no one has certitude today.

[Hyve]

Both need each other...

GB's GDP is 17% of the EU. But 50% of its trade is with the EU.
EU would recover if GB would sink in the ocean. GB without EU...not so much.

How do you come to that conclusion using your own numbers? That's like literally looking at the colour Red, and going; "That's blue!"

[Wildtree]

Please do explain the math whereby half of 72% is larger than half of 100%.

It's not a 'majority' of the population.

72% voter turnout is extremely high by all international standards.
Anything a lot higher than that is actually sorta fishy and reeks of fraud, unless voting is required by law.
Even Australia where voting is required the turnout isn't 100%. I believe it was 94%.
The UK sits normally in the lower 60% ranges, if I am not mistaken.

Mathematically you're of course correct. But realistically the 72% was exceptionally high.

[Deleted]

Very true, but as I said, make the deal too bad, and the other countries have to foot the bill, we trade more with China, Africa, US and other areas rather than the EU. EU nations have to foot the bill a lot more, and with Turkey joining, immigration grows and Right-Wing parties grow in popularity, and then more nations slowly lean towards leaving.

That's why these deals are important. A balance is going to be needed. Good for both teams, but not too good that there is any concerns.

Turkey will not join. No worries

Also for EU UK is a smaller % market share for export/import than other way around. It is big, but it's even bigger for UK. I believe everyone will want to smooth the negative effects but not entirely because some are needed to make a point.

[Theodarzna]

Which is, in essence, why referenda are beyond stupid. To say nothing of the fact that the Leavers are mostly older people.

Should there be a cut off age for voting?

[Elegiac]

It's weird seeing so many people talk about how great the EU is but then also talking about it as if it's basically the Mafia and needs to punish nations that step out of line, so the others know their place.

That's what tends to happen in zero sum games of this sort.

[Deleted]

while the collapse of the UK economy does not benefit the EU leaving them unscathed would cause far more harm to the union. There is a very good possibility that Britain's economy will go into recession.

This is probably not in the remaining member states' interests. If the UK's economy went totally tits up then the reasonably-well-off-to-wealthy will start to rapidly liquidise the huge chunks of non UK, EU businesses that they own (privately and by means of diversified managed portfolios) in order to cash out. This would fuck the EU economy short to mid term at least in the form of plummeting share prices and would probably result in non EU investors getting significant amounts of influence in the EUs economy for a song. People across the EU will be shitting bricks about this.

[Deleted]

Maybe voting should be mandatory...

No because that's against the very rules of democracy and freedom of choice.

[Tabrotar]

This is why article 50 states that we have up to 2 years to conclude our negotiations, so that foolish emotional reactions like this can die down and we can all sit down like adults.

Oh please you´re always were a special little snowflake. And now that the danger arise that the little snowflake could be melting it´s all: Let´s wait and see? Please i call bullshit about the say: let it settle down first. We know you wanna try to put off this shit as long as even possible so that you can get the most out of it.

[Floopa]

Team remain seem to only know 1 flavour, salt!