BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Damajin]

England will be fine, it was fine long before the EU was a sparkle in the eyes of paper pushing tyrants everywhere, England will be fine long after the EU itself falls.

[Deleted]

It's not about punishing.
It's about not having them benefit of the EU.

If you leave the EU, you also leave all the economical benefits behind.
The EU should tell the UK to go fuck itself.
People are afraid the EU will now pander to the UK by giving them their benefits without any of the downsides.

Allowing us access to the EEA isn't having us benefit off the EU, if it is then you can start looking at kicking Norway and Switzerland out, because they do the same.

The EU will benefit from the UK being in the EEA as much as the UK will.

[Frontenac]

This debate on Brexit is interesting to watch from Québec. The same arguments are served by the parties in Québec and UK.

- If we leave, we will have better control, especially immigration, taxation, laws, etc.
- If we leave, it will be catastrophic for our economy.
- The other party will reply: we will overcome those turmoils, and be better off in the long run.
- If we leave, Canada/EU will make us pay for it dearly, and cut all ties.
- The Yes/Leave party would reply that they would hurt themselves if they do, and will reach a quick agreement with Qc/UK.
- USA/France will back us.
- From some Canadians/Europeans: Qc/UK are all a bunch of whiners that slows the federation down.
- Scotland will leave/ Montreal West Island will leave.

And so on. Very instructive indeed. And ironic. To think that a Quebecer could compare Québec with the United Kingdom...

If you're going out, don't forget your umbrellas, because it looks that pigs will fly.

[Slant]

General question:

Could someone summarize for me, why UK left the EU? Maybe in a rational way, not just "ehhh, Merkel sucks etc etc."I am really intereseted in the whole thing thats going on there

The most concise summary is because Britain really never liked Europe. This is an emotional vote above all else, immigration, economy, investments, trade... all that stands back to the simple notion that Britain doesn't respect other countries that aren't able to muscle Britain. And this is a note you can hear whenever one of them talks about other countries. And Britain cannot stand the idea that Poland has a say in something that may affect Britain.

[Deleted]

Well on the bright side, the rest of us can reap from the idiocy of the Brits, prices are crashing and even amazon.co.uk stuff is falling drastically in price, good time to buy toys.

Shouldn't prices shoot up considering the pound is worth much less?

[Wildtree]

General question:

Could someone summarize for me, why UK left the EU? Maybe in a rational way, not just "ehhh, Merkel sucks etc etc."I am really intereseted in the whole thing thats going on there

There are two ways to answer, in great length, or in a few words..
I try the latter...

A slight shift to the right on the political scale, out of fears (rational and irrational ones) caused a more protectionism nationalistic stance, just far enough to try to go a different route.
Whether that route was now wise, is to be questioned, and subject to a much longer answer.

[Eviscero]

Newsflash, the big world isn't really much interested in the UK on its own when they could (and do) trade with the EU that's right next to it.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. UK is 5th largest economy in the world.; it's nothing to sneeze at. Also, I have to wonder if other countries will follow suit. Greece? Spain even? If another major EU country puts up for exit, the EU's standing will be very seriously questioned.

[padie]

England will be fine, it was fine long before the EU was a sparkle in the eyes of paper pushing tyrants everywhere, England will be fine long after the EU itself falls.

You might lose Scotland , but thats just a minor setback

[Pantelija]

Putin's probably laughing his @$$ off in Moscow. A weaker EU and UK for him to deal with - gives him more room to bully the eastern European countries harder now.

Evil Putin smh

[Deleted]

England will be fine, it was fine long before the EU was a sparkle in the eyes of paper pushing tyrants everywhere, England will be fine long after the EU itself falls.

but England will be alone, no fancy united kingdom anymore. being the center of financial Europe, a thing of the past. but you gave them paper pushing tyrants good.
people voting against their best interests out of spite and misinformation.

[Vyxn]

Why should I value something that comes from ignorance?

so what are you proposing? bringing back the literacy test to qualify to vote? democrats tried that once already using the same excuse because blacks aren't educated enough to vote

[Gangresnake]

Newsflash, the big world isn't really much interested in the UK on its own when they could (and do) trade with the EU that's right next to it.

Newsflash, the prime trade partner of the UK is the United State who is, another newsflash, not an EU member.

[Kalador]

It's bullshit. If it takes them that little effort to realise they've been duped that they actually announce it the day after they voted Out, why the fuck did they not invest that little time BEFORE making the vote? Nah man, no mercy for them. They deserve whatever is in store for them. I feel sorry for the Remainers.

Yeah, many people take those kind of vote to express their anger and emotion toward the ''elite'' and don't do any reserch on the what is really going on.

In the end I still think that the leave was hijack by some elite to make political gain, people who are not gona suffer form it. When real change happen coming for labour class every one at the top is scared and shitting their pants, not just half of the politician.

[Jessicka]

It's not a punishment. It's a fucking consequence of the country going OUT. Again, they didn't vote to "go out a little bit". Out is out. When will that sink in? I don't think people realise this wasn't a joke ballot. This has monumental repercussions and the wheels that are being set in motions belong to such huge grinders that I fear nothing will stop whatever is happening, for good or bad.

This. And it needs to be sorted, quickly now because the uncertainty is hugely damaging.

There's no 'let's be a little bit out' or 'let's take our time over it so we can not actually be out for a few years while we think about what we've just done'. That is utter bullshit and it's honestly it's an absolute mindfuck that people have been demanding this and cheering it along, and now they've got it, they don't know what the fuck they actually want from it. That is the most absurd thing about all this. There was no plan, no vision, just a bunch of empty promises and vagaries, most of which have already been rescinded because the people making them were in no position to actually deliver.

[Kalis]

Fear is a very effective political tool, look at pretty much every political nation in the world. The reason Donald Trump is the republican nominee is fear, the reason people voted for Brexit was also fear, so I am not sure why you would think the EU politicians would somehow be above all that.

So the EU is held together by fear of what they will do if you leave, not a voluntary union of nations for the common good? Where was that in a treaty all the members signed, can you link it please?

[Theodarzna]

It's not the first time I said it and I will be saying it many many more times.

I don't actually believe in democracy. Majority of the population is too fucking stupid to be allowed anywhere near a polling station.

Bush, the entire Republican Party, Donald Trump, Brexit are clear examples of this.

Well its easy to be for Democracy when things are going your way. I wanted Bernie Sanders, but I didn't say "Welp time to get rid of Democracy and install a Dictatorship!"

I do find it historically fascinating, European Revolutionary spirit is finally becoming a True Revolution, in accordance to the definition of Revolution. Well actually it isn't, I follow what @Kalis has said on this, mainly that there will be bluster, hurt feelings and saber rattling but at the end of the day there isn't going to be some cruel Carthaginian peace imposed on the UK for daring to leave the Glorious Revolutionary EU.

But it is interesting to see today's elites and elite fanboy's be so opposed to Democracy. Centuries ago these nascent Technocrats and Nobless de Robe, pushed for Democratization to seize power from the Monarchies. And now, with a technocratic elite firmly in power they seem to be against Democracy and Democratic challenges. Making Europe a Revolution in the truest sense of the word, a full rotation ending back were you started.

It would make for a grand historical comedy IMHO if the EU actually went the direction some of its fanboy's on MMOC-OT want it to go.

[Slant]

Yes and? We voted out. We now have 2 years to negotiate what out actually means. That is in Article 50 or whatever its called. If it was a simple case of "Out is Out", we'd be out as soon as we "push the button", there is a reason that it takes 2 years to leave.

Those two years are basically just the overture. You'll need an estimated 10 years to negotiate THE EXIT. You seem to be under the impression that these negotiations are part of a new trade agreement. They're not, the purpose of these negotiations is to finalise the termination of your membership. This is not an opportunity for you to win. This is the only way for you to not instantly lose all agreements in one go.

- - - Updated - - -

Newsflash, the prime trade partner of the UK is the United State who is, another newsflash, not an EU member.

Ok, the UK now has a 160 trillion Euros GDP. That happened mighty fast.

[Consternation]

One of the big reasons a lot of people voted leave is because we watched Cameron spend 6 months travelling around europe and only getting insignificant changes. A lot gave up on the EU at that point as they could never see it changing to a way they wanted it.

[Naxere]

It's almost like the UK didn't exist before they were a part of the EU with some of the whiners here.

[Draco-Onis]

So the EU is held together by fear of what they will do if you leave, not a voluntary union of nations for the common good? Where was that in a treaty all the members signed, can you link it please?

This is about politics not the treaty and politics are ugly, I would think that the ugly fear mongering brexit campaign on both sides would have shown you that.