[LEGION] Brewmaster Discussion

[Deleted]

The empowered purifying brew has some questions though (at least for me)
1. will it just delete the stagger damage for those 3 seconds, or does it only delay the damage until later
2. if delayed (which is my guess), will it then squish the damage into 7 seconds, or will the stagger you had in fact last for 13 seconds (=just forward in time 3 seconds)
3. what happens to damage added to stagger during those 3 seconds (and it's duration)

[stross01]

It is currently just stacking up the damage without allowing any of it to tick.

[Ampere]

It sounds like it simply delays it. Pauses your stagger debuff. Of course new damaged absorbed will still get added to it

Haven't logged on to try it though.

[DisposableHero]

So, with the 2 piece T19 bonus, High Tolerance nets a 90% stagger value with only ironskin up.

Also, can anyone on Beta confirm if Keg Smash and TP reductions are affecting Black Ox Brew?

[Woxbc]

Also, can anyone on Beta confirm if Keg Smash and TP reductions are affecting Black Ox Brew?

On the ptr, yes. Not sure if that's intended.

[Deleted]

It might be intended, and that might be why the cd was made to 1,5 minute instead of 1 minute.

[Deezingworth]

It might be intended, and that might be why the cd was made to 1,5 minute instead of 1 minute.

Definitely the intention. The wording change wouldn't be so broad if it weren't.

[Valkaneer]

Meh, so far I see nothing in the changes that give any kind of balance to that of warriors. I still can only get to the same amount of Uber strikes as before. While my same ilvl warrior can tank up to 15 for some time.

[arcuro]

with now more interesting t100 talents. there are only 2 things i want to see with BrM right now:

#1: PB: Clears 50% of Stagger amount. If you use Pb while Light Stagger, 100% is cleared
=> this would solve so many problems (dungeons, questing) while keep it balances in raiding tiers to leave it at 50% for medium and high stagger.

#2: make Golden Dragons intreresting! it seams nice to not need to focus on GD, but they are so worthless compared to other traits. its kind of sad

[Xiaojin]

Irrelevant - If I have a health pool of 3 million and the boss hits for 1 million unmittigated every 2 seconds, I will spawn an orb on every 3rd auto-attack. If I have a health pool of 4 million it will spawn an orb every 4th auto attack. Dying after 6 seconds of autoattacks with no heals and dying after 8 seconds of autoattacks with no heals is not substantially different in terms of how healable you are because you have to be pretty tuned out as a healer to go 6 seconds between heals on a tank when their health is low, but you will accrue 33% more healing orbs in the first case. This is true for ANY value of boss damage. Less health, more healing.

Regardless of what the boss is swinging for, if you're not getting globaled it is better to have lower health because you will have better self healing.

I'm not talking about stamina on higher ilvl gear, that is unavoidable. What is avoidable are 23 artifact traits dedicated to increasing max health that are likely to make our survivability WORSE instead of better.

I don't mind only having to spend 600k artifact power to "Max Out" the artifact rather than 65 million, but I am certain this is not the way blizzard intends for Brewmasters to progress.

Yes, bonuses that only provide max. health without also increasing your attack power are bad for Brewmasters. But the majority of the time, you will gain more max. health by equipping better gear. And doing so, will increase your attack power at the same rate as your max. health increases (aside from equipping better trinkets which usually don't have Agi + Stam at the same time). So if you increase your max. health by 33%, each orb will also heal 33% more in practice.

Also, those artifact traits only provide a total bonus of 13%, I don't think that'll break Brewmaster gameplay. Though, it would still be nice to see them changed into something different or, which is probably the better solution, change the GotO spawning logic to only consider max. health granted by Stamina from gear at the base conversion rate for any character.

[Valkaneer]

with now more interesting t100 talents. there are only 2 things i want to see with BrM right now:

#1: PB: Clears 50% of Stagger amount. If you use Pb while Light Stagger, 100% is cleared
=> this would solve so many problems (dungeons, questing) while keep it balances in raiding tiers to leave it at 50% for medium and high stagger.

#2: make Golden Dragons intreresting! it seams nice to not need to focus on GD, but they are so worthless compared to other traits. its kind of sad

Not really sure what your obsession is with wanting your best traits locked under weeks or months, being gated by the need for an insane amount of artifact power. I think it's absurd in the first place being gated beyond lvl 110 when its raid time, yet that is what you're advocating for.

[bubky]

with now more interesting t100 talents. there are only 2 things i want to see with BrM right now:

#1: PB: Clears 50% of Stagger amount. If you use Pb while Light Stagger, 100% is cleared
=> this would solve so many problems (dungeons, questing) while keep it balances in raiding tiers to leave it at 50% for medium and high stagger.

#2: make Golden Dragons intreresting! it seams nice to not need to focus on GD, but they are so worthless compared to other traits. its kind of sad

Agree with this.

Generally very pleased they changed the lvl 100 talents. However random issues that come to mind:

Stagger % too high (even more than before)
BOF cd being reduced by both a talent and the legendary seems redundant. (i guess you just dont use both but still not ideal)
ISB giving mastery stacks feels wasteful / underwhelming.

I hope I can justify using blackout combo it seems the most interesting to play with.

[Deleted]

high tolerance doesn't increase haste at all (not just a tooltip error ingame). Datamining error or ingame bug?


there are also only 3 level of elusive dance. Green stagger means 5% more dodge and damage done, yellow means 10% and red means 15% (nothing in between)

[Valkaneer]

high tolerance doesn't increase haste at all (not just a tooltip error ingame). Datamining error or ingame bug?


there are also only 3 level of elusive dance. Green stagger means 5% more dodge and damage done, yellow means 10% and red means 15% (nothing in between)

No wonder I was dying just as quickly. That kind of makes the talent suck in my opinion because I will never have red stagger if I can help it

[Deleted]

Seeing the new 100 talents actually makes me interested in still playing brew but I have no idea what to do once I hit 110 on beta. Can someone give me a TLDR: of talents to pick and stats for 110?

[Saiyoran]

No wonder I was dying just as quickly. That kind of makes the talent suck in my opinion because I will never have red stagger if I can help it

As soon as you hit a Mythic dungeon or Heroic+ raids, its constantly red stagger. Most of the time in Mythic+6 you're sitting at over 100% stagger regardless of Purifying often. Things hit for millions within a few seconds on any relevant pack, there's no avoiding red stagger there. With that in mind, the talent looks pretty good. In lower content it just gets bad quickly.

[v1perz53]

Meh, so far I see nothing in the changes that give any kind of balance to that of warriors. I still can only get to the same amount of Uber strikes as before. While my same ilvl warrior can tank up to 15 for some time.

I think inherently classes that buff incoming heals from outside sources (Monk with Celestial Fortune, Druid with their Mastery) will need to be weaker solo against the dummy than a tank that does not buff incoming heals, just by class design. Otherwise there would be a pretty significant balance issue in actual raids. Which is why I don't think the dummy is necessarily the best for comparison. Also not a perfect comparison, but I think Monk vs Druid on the dummy would be a bit more valuable to see.

[Ampere]

I think inherently classes that buff incoming heals from outside sources (Monk with Celestial Fortune, Druid with their Mastery) will need to be weaker solo against the dummy than a tank that does not buff incoming heals, just by class design. Otherwise there would be a pretty significant balance issue in actual raids. Which is why I don't think the dummy is necessarily the best for comparison. Also not a perfect comparison, but I think Monk vs Druid on the dummy would be a bit more valuable to see.

Yeah, this is very true.

I'm not concerned with viability or class balance too much, I think we should mainly be looking for mechanical problems with the spec. No way to clear stagger when out of combat is my biggest concern right now, and that doesn't impact raid combat at all.

[Valkaneer]

I think inherently classes that buff incoming heals from outside sources (Monk with Celestial Fortune, Druid with their Mastery) will need to be weaker solo against the dummy than a tank that does not buff incoming heals, just by class design. Otherwise there would be a pretty significant balance issue in actual raids. Which is why I don't think the dummy is necessarily the best for comparison. Also not a perfect comparison, but I think Monk vs Druid on the dummy would be a bit more valuable to see.

You have a good point, but it makes everything not raiding a real PITA.

[Tech614]

You have a good point, but it makes everything not raiding a real PITA.

Not really, if you have an issue surviving questing I don't know... and not like it's intended for you to do 5 mans without a healer(even though the last 2 exansions that was completely viable, and actually the ideal way to do challenge modes)