1. #3401
    Just looked what stat multistrike was changing into on my 2 Hellrenders (746,740) and its crit :C Never though I would be sad to see crit instead of haste.

  2. #3402
    Quote Originally Posted by Cortic View Post
    Somewhere in this thread I believe someone said it's best to go for the last trait first (Rage of the Valajar) then work backwards to the other 2 GDs.
    you start with:
    http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...DAbIAAAAAAAAAA

    then go back to Rage of the Valarjar, which uses a total of 19 points and should probably be somewhere around what you can get for the first tier of raiding.

    we still have to see how it all works out with balancing and tuning, but that should be the latest "basic build"

  3. #3403
    Quote Originally Posted by Sethanor View Post
    you start with:
    http://beta.wowdb.com/artifact-calcu...DAbIAAAAAAAAAA

    then go back to Rage of the Valarjar, which uses a total of 19 points and should probably be somewhere around what you can get for the first tier of raiding.

    we still have to see how it all works out with balancing and tuning, but that should be the latest "basic build"
    That, yeah. You should probably be able to pick up both Berserking and Rage of the Valarjar by the time raiding starts if you're diligent I believe, I haven't leveled on the beta since they changed AP costs and such a few builds ago.

    It's the most efficient way to pick up all the gold traits though. Every other path to get all three requires at least one more trait, and when each trait at that point begins to cost 80-100k AP, efficiency is likely to be an important thing to keep in mind.

  4. #3404
    Quote Originally Posted by Samayael View Post
    That, yeah. You should probably be able to pick up both Berserking and Rage of the Valarjar by the time raiding starts if you're diligent I believe, I haven't leveled on the beta since they changed AP costs and such a few builds ago.

    It's the most efficient way to pick up all the gold traits though. Every other path to get all three requires at least one more trait, and when each trait at that point begins to cost 80-100k AP, efficiency is likely to be an important thing to keep in mind.
    You should easily be able to get two gold traits by the time raids open. Well maybe not easily, but it's doable without superhuman effort. (with current tuning)

    I think the only question is when to get Helya's Wrath. As it does reduce a significant amount of delay and helps align Odyn's Fury, Avatar, and Battle Cry within a few seconds of each other. Odyn's Champion is a bit of a wild card when it comes to alignment though, as anything with adds you'll be holding your cooldowns for that anyway to get the big Odyn's Fury.

    However, if you plan to not raid and stick with Mythic+ dungeons Juggernaut won't have a ton of value to you so I would probably grab Helya's Wrath before trying to get Juggernaut.
    Last edited by Artunias; 2016-06-24 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #3405
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    Quick question... Wrecking Ball says that Whirlwind will cost no rage, but Whirlwind costs no rage by default... is the tooltip out of date, or is Whirlwind wrong?

    Thanks!

  6. #3406
    The tooltip wasn't updated when they removed the rage cost from WW. I'd assume they'll fix it at some point.
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  7. #3407
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    The tooltip wasn't updated when they removed the rage cost from WW. I'd assume they'll fix it at some point.
    Looking through the abilities. The only one that requires Rage is Rampage. Did they remove all other rage costs so that Frothing Berserker wouldn't be too strong? If you could just dump 10 rage -> Cap again. You'd permanently have 10% more damage. Not sure how practical it would be though.

  8. #3408
    They didnt remove the ragecost of abilities because of frothing berserker. The talent lowers your enrage up time (mostly because it competes with both massacre and carnage) and it waste resources at the same time.

    I cant see this talent being useful anywhere unless you really need that extra 10% dmg for your bladestorm. But because the buff doesnt refresh itself unless you spend rage and go back up to 100 rage its not exactly something thats easy to pull off unless you stop dpsing to not gain rage.

  9. #3409
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskwyre View Post
    Looking through the abilities. The only one that requires Rage is Rampage. Did they remove all other rage costs so that Frothing Berserker wouldn't be too strong? If you could just dump 10 rage -> Cap again. You'd permanently have 10% more damage. Not sure how practical it would be though.
    Pretty sure the buff only refreshes after the first one falls off.

  10. #3410
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Khelon View Post
    They didnt remove the ragecost of abilities because of frothing berserker. The talent lowers your enrage up time (mostly because it competes with both massacre and carnage) and it waste resources at the same time.

    I cant see this talent being useful anywhere unless you really need that extra 10% dmg for your bladestorm. But because the buff doesnt refresh itself unless you spend rage and go back up to 100 rage its not exactly something thats easy to pull off unless you stop dpsing to not gain rage.
    You can't get back to 100 rage in time after spending because of how much our only rage-spender costs.

  11. #3411
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskwyre View Post
    Looking through the abilities. The only one that requires Rage is Rampage. Did they remove all other rage costs so that Frothing Berserker wouldn't be too strong? If you could just dump 10 rage -> Cap again. You'd permanently have 10% more damage. Not sure how practical it would be though.
    I played around with this a few builds ago. You basically sacrificed using Rampage or Execute at all if you wanted to keep Frothing up, or just for the majority of the time with Reckless Abandon. It was fun for the consistent 30% movement speed, but the damage was obviously terrible.

  12. #3412
    Quote Originally Posted by Eskwyre View Post
    You can't get back to 100 rage in time after spending because of how much our only rage-spender costs.
    Sure you can, if you have any Enrage uptime or use Reckless Abandon/Charge to supplement.

  13. #3413
    I cant see this talent being useful anywhere unless you really need that extra 10% dmg for your bladestorm. But because the buff doesnt refresh itself unless you spend rage and go back up to 100 rage its not exactly something thats easy to pull off unless you stop dpsing to not gain rage.
    It's funny you say that, as I would believe the same. However, the AMR simulator puts it quite significantly ahead of Massacre and Carnage. Could be a problem with the simulator of course.

  14. #3414
    Had anyone suggested how to deal with crit overcap yet? Because right now crit feels unrewarding with 100% critchance during Battle Cry. Would be cool if all crit above 100% was converted into bonus crit damage, kinda like Warlocks' Demon Bolt works.

  15. #3415
    So simulator is showing frothing berserker >carnage as a significant dps increase at 100 as is frenzy > inner rage. Maybe its just for longer fights, playing the spec inner rage feels much better.

  16. #3416
    I bet the Simcraft folks on this board are just super thrilled that the AMR simcraft tool went public before they were ready to start talking hard numbers...

  17. #3417
    The new AMR tool simulating actual bosses is a massive step up from what SC has been doing in terms of raiding usefulness. That's assuming it's accurate, which is going to be the real concern, we've had tonnes of sim style tools over the years that weren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoodzilla View Post
    So simulator is showing frothing berserker >carnage as a significant dps increase at 100 as is frenzy > inner rage. Maybe its just for longer fights, playing the spec inner rage feels much better.
    From what my buddy told me in the week from playing with SC, in level 100 gear the sim is not using Rampage at all, it's just using Raging Blow and Bloodthirst with a FS filler. I haven't been following theorycrafting or touching wow for fucking ages so I don't know why.. Maybe Rampage is a dps loss at level 100 with HFC gear?
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2016-06-25 at 02:00 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  18. #3418
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    The new AMR tool simulating actual bosses is a massive step up from what SC has been doing in terms of raiding usefulness. That's assuming it's accurate, which is going to be the real concern, we've had tonnes of sim style tools over the years that weren't.



    In level 100 gear the sim is not using Rampage at all that's why, it's just using Raging Blow and Bloodthirst with a FS filler. I haven't been following theorycrafting or touching wow for fucking ages so I don't know why.. Maybe carnage is a dps loss at level 100 with HFC gear?
    He stated that the sim was theorycrafted for 110s and any level drops will produce anomalous results.
    Moreover, you can easily go check the template rotation and tweak it.

    I managed to tweak the rotation for WW Monk and at the base gear that it gives, the DPS went up from 168 to 182k.

  19. #3419
    Quote Originally Posted by Murlocbait View Post
    I bet the Simcraft folks on this board are just super thrilled that the AMR simcraft tool went public before they were ready to start talking hard numbers...
    You bet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    The new AMR tool simulating actual bosses is a massive step up from what SC has been doing in terms of raiding usefulness. That's assuming it's accurate, which is going to be the real concern, we've had tonnes of sim style tools over the years that weren't.
    This is something that we've been able to do in Sim-C for quite a while, but there's a reason as to why it's not something we speak about too often.
    First off it's really freaking hard to make a fight that ain't purely patchwerk. Ultraxion was quite easy to do, and even Ra-Den was easy, but imagine trying to do Hellfire Assault, or Iskar. Coding when all the adds spawn, and how many there are ain't really an issue, but the issue comes with the fact that every guild/raid will have differentiating amounts of AoE, and the way they handle the adds differ between all groups as well.

    If they manage to do this, I'd be very impressed, but if I where to guess, it's going to be far from perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    From what my buddy told me in the week from playing with SC, in level 100 gear the sim is not using Rampage at all, it's just using Raging Blow and Bloodthirst with a FS filler. I haven't been following theorycrafting or touching wow for fucking ages so I don't know why.. Maybe Rampage is a dps loss at level 100 with HFC gear?
    We've yet to update the baseline rotations. All changes we've done this far to them we simply have stored on our own computers at this point in time. Once we're happy with the results we'll gather them all up and make Sim-C public.
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  20. #3420
    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorsarri View Post
    You bet!



    This is something that we've been able to do in Sim-C for quite a while, but there's a reason as to why it's not something we speak about too often.
    First off it's really freaking hard to make a fight that ain't purely patchwerk. Ultraxion was quite easy to do, and even Ra-Den was easy, but imagine trying to do Hellfire Assault, or Iskar. Coding when all the adds spawn, and how many there are ain't really an issue, but the issue comes with the fact that every guild/raid will have differentiating amounts of AoE, and the way they handle the adds differ between all groups as well.

    If they manage to do this, I'd be very impressed, but if I where to guess, it's going to be far from perfect.



    We've yet to update the baseline rotations. All changes we've done this far to them we simply have stored on our own computers at this point in time. Once we're happy with the results we'll gather them all up and make Sim-C public.
    Aye not saying it's easy to do, we will see how it pans out. If they pull it off then it's really impressive and definitely a step up. And as for the SC I haven't actually used it myself with the beta build, just going on hearsay really. Is Collision still working on it with you? Haven't seen him around here in an age.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arthael View Post
    He stated that the sim was theorycrafted for 110s and any level drops will produce anomalous results.
    Moreover, you can easily go check the template rotation and tweak it.

    I managed to tweak the rotation for WW Monk and at the base gear that it gives, the DPS went up from 168 to 182k.
    Aye I was too slow to edit, I haven't actually used the latest SC at all and it was based on something a friend had told me from simming his char earlier this week. It would give an answer as to why Frothing Berserker would come out above Carnage though. And the post I was replying to was talking about level 100.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

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