No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Maudib]

Except you didnt provide examples of a lack of content.
Ashran was/is fine
Garrisons were an interesting story, offering quest starters, campaign, and so on. it was truly unique in wow so far.
Reps were made too easy bewcause people have an issue with working towards something.

It is completely clear here that you are playing a different WoD than millions of other people.

Ashran was the single largest PvP mistake and even Blizzard acknowledges that.

There was NOTHING interesting about Garrisons. You are the champion, the commander! Any storyline told by quests was an hour at most of content. The rest was just a giveaway

Garrisonville will forever be remembered as Blizzards biggest April Fool's joke that actually happened.

[Deleted]

It is completely clear here that you are playing a different WoD than millions of other people.

Ashran was the single largest PvP mistake and even Blizzard acknowledges that.

There was NOTHING interesting about Garrisons. You are the champion, the commander! Any storyline told by quests was an hour at most of content. The rest was just a giveaway

Garrisonville will forever be remembered as Blizzards biggest April Fool's joke that actually happened.

Yeah. How can Ashran be fine if so many people constantly complained about it?

Garrisons are not interesting at all. It is an experiment that went totally wrong. It was surely good for my gold income and also quite good for profession leveling and catch up, and I finally got all my characters completely outfitted with the largest available bags. It was also nice to have in terms of pet battle and pet leveling, especially with many alts to get the pet charms from the daily. That's it.

I wonder, how many people who think that Garrison is a good concept are the same people who once were all out against "welfare epics". Garrison totally put that to shame! Though, I currently prefer a mix of Tanaan/Kazzak, PvP (medaillons) and occasional HFC Normal cache gear from the TW quest to the items you get via Garrison missions, but in the first months, there have been plenty of welfare epics for doing almost nothing. Setting up a Garrison is a finite process with a fixed gold and time cost, but the profit increases with time as long as they don't deactivate the relevant missions.

Apexis dailys were horrible content. The only good thing they did about it was the option to gain quest progress by using items, not only by killing mobs. That's it. Filling up a bar mindlessly is an inferior design to a short quest chain or a bunch of quests with their own narrative. Now add to this either too much competition by other players, so you don't get anything to progress on your quest - because all people are funneled into 1 of 2 areas - or the prospect of joining a group to rush through...

Hint: If people just want to rush through, then the content is not that amazing. You just want to be done with it, because you need the benefits from the completion. In my case, I bought the ugly 50K apexis riverbeast because it adds one count to the 300 mounts achievement, and exactly one item for my main character, because the stats on the gear have been that bad. I was lucky that I worked on the achievement from early on, so by the time Pathfinder and its requirement were announced, I was already done with this mess.

MoP dailys have been a cause for burn-out, but only because there have been to many factions from the beginning, and that some of these factions have been gated by Lotus reputation. WoD apexis quests lead to bore-out, and in terms of reputation farming the worst thing ever happening in WoW.

I did not spent much time with WoD world endgame content, not only because it was not a great amount, but because the available content was digusting. Some things I did exactly once for the achievement, the rest only if it was efficient or contributed to my intended path of progression. Well, at least I got time for leveling so many alts.

[Maudib]

Only the most casual of players would have seen WoD as a success.

But then again.. most of the changes they made for WoD were directly aimed at making WoW consumable in a couple hours a week.

Not the MMO it was.

[Eapoe]

Yeah. How can Ashran be fine if so many people constantly complained about it?

Garrisons are not interesting at all. It is an experiment that went totally wrong. It was surely good for my gold income and also quite good for profession leveling and catch up, and I finally got all my characters completely outfitted with the largest available bags. It was also nice to have in terms of pet battle and pet leveling, especially with many alts to get the pet charms from the daily. That's it.

I wonder, how many people who think that Garrison is a good concept are the same people who once were all out against "welfare epics". Garrison totally put that to shame! Though, I currently prefer a mix of Tanaan/Kazzak, PvP (medaillons) and occasional HFC Normal cache gear from the TW quest to the items you get via Garrison missions, but in the first months, there have been plenty of welfare epics for doing almost nothing. Setting up a Garrison is a finite process with a fixed gold and time cost, but the profit increases with time as long as they don't deactivate the relevant missions.

Apexis dailys were horrible content. The only good thing they did about it was the option to gain quest progress by using items, not only by killing mobs. That's it. Filling up a bar mindlessly is an inferior design to a short quest chain or a bunch of quests with their own narrative. Now add to this either too much competition by other players, so you don't get anything to progress on your quest - because all people are funneled into 1 of 2 areas - or the prospect of joining a group to rush through...

Hint: If people just want to rush through, then the content is not that amazing. You just want to be done with it, because you need the benefits from the completion. In my case, I bought the ugly 50K apexis riverbeast because it adds one count to the 300 mounts achievement, and exactly one item for my main character, because the stats on the gear have been that bad. I was lucky that I worked on the achievement from early on, so by the time Pathfinder and its requirement were announced, I was already done with this mess.

MoP dailys have been a cause for burn-out, but only because there have been to many factions from the beginning, and that some of these factions have been gated by Lotus reputation. WoD apexis quests lead to bore-out, and in terms of reputation farming the worst thing ever happening in WoW.

I did not spent much time with WoD world endgame content, not only because it was not a great amount, but because the available content was digusting. Some things I did exactly once for the achievement, the rest only if it was efficient or contributed to my intended path of progression. Well, at least I got time for leveling so many alts.

Ashran's failure came from gear acquisition and win trading. Blizzard addressed those and it became what it was meant to be, a PvP zone...albeit it did still allow extremely quick gearing compared to dungeons. It's also being brought back as the main PvP huh in Legion, unless they've changed their stance in the last few months and I didn't see it. Going by that info, I don't think it's hated as much as you make it out to be.
The experiment did not go all wrong, as we are now getting garrison 2.0 (as some are calling it) with class halls. Blizzard did not say garrisons were a failure or a bad idea, but that they were implemented wrong. They give players no incentive to go out into the world and are to self sustaining. Blizzard wanted to expand on the idea behind garrisons and that's where class halls came from. Now personally, I don't like garrisons for the previously mentioned reasons, but I can see the aspect Blizzard went for and hope this turns out better in Legion.
Apexis dailies are nothing more than what we've had every xpac that has some kind of daily quest based currency to gear up...the issue, in my opinion, was that instead of different currencies thru the xpac that has been done so many times, there is only the 1 in WoD which made it feel boring and redundant. For example: Wrath had frozen orbs, VP, Argent tokens, etc. This trend continued thru the other xpacs, even in BC it was there. MoP had gear at gold cost behind reps only. The lack of variety is what caused most people to feel like nothing new was happening as the Apexis covers everything in WoD, short of upgrading with VP. I'm not saying it is THE direct issue with it, but I feel like it plays a huge part as the daily system in WoD is nothing new or that different from what we've always had short of different currencies behind everything.
Your statement of rushing thru content is nothing more than false assumption. Rushing thru it does not equal bad content. There are player who consume content fast because they enjoy it and players who rush thru it because time is limited. That doesn't mean there aren't players who go at a leisurely pace though.
As far as your last statement, what wouldn't you find disgusting? As I've stated, the daily grind is nothing new, so is it just the story associated with it (killing hordes of orcs/ogres instead of mindless undead/fire elementals)? Is it that you are traversing a jungle instead of a frozen wasteland? I am not being sarcastic, just curious. Personally I preferred killing the hordes of undead to the orcs we are now fighting, but that's personal taste.
Not frozen orbs for currency, but the Arctic Fur.

[Bun-Bun]

Not quite what he said - he said they overestimated how quickly they could launch legion, hence the lack of content at the end

That is entirely exactly not what he said.

Go watch the interview before you spew BS.

Garrisons, world content, apexis, removal of dailies, etc. He admits they were poorly executed and was a overreaction to the complaints from MoP. And these were the reasons flight was removed.

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What was available was not terribly done at all. The only issue was in terms of pacing.

Pacing has nothing to do with it. There was no reason to do any of it, that was the problem. Ion even admits that in the June interview.

Seriously, go watch it before you spew anymore lies.

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CMs, Mythics, Highmaul, BRF, HFC....
Reps tied to quests made them easy sure. Especially with medallions available as well

Only Tanaan reps were tied to quests. The rest of Draenor is mob grinds. And there was nothing of note to be gained from those reputations. No reason to do them.

Instanced content has nothing to do with world content (or flying). And outside of raiding there was zero reason to do instanced content until valor was brought back.

Again go watch the interview. Ion discussed all that a year ago and referenced why it sucked.

[Saracens]

I don't want to be the one to tell you guys this, but I feel like I need to. No flying confirmed in 7.0 I'm sorry.

[Maudib]

I don't want to be the one to tell you guys this, but I feel like I need to. No flying confirmed in 7.0 I'm sorry.

Thanks guy! But of course the reason this thread exists is because that is currently the case.

[Saracens]

Thanks guy! But of course the reason this thread exists is because that is currently the case.

Oh no I know, and there's been a ton of really valuable discussion here. I just didn't have much to add and wanted to toss a laugh in.

[Bun-Bun]

Apexis dailies are nothing more than what we've had every xpac that has some kind of daily quest based currency to gear up...the issue, in my opinion, was that instead of different currencies thru the xpac that has been done so many times, there is only the 1 in WoD which made it feel boring and redundant. For example: Wrath had frozen orbs, VP, Argent tokens, etc. This trend continued thru the other xpacs, even in BC it was there. MoP had gear at gold cost behind reps only. The lack of variety is what caused most people to feel like nothing new was happening as the Apexis covers everything in WoD, short of upgrading with VP. I'm not saying it is THE direct issue with it, but I feel like it plays a huge part as the daily system in WoD is nothing new or that different from what we've always had short of different currencies behind everything.
Your statement of rushing thru content is nothing more than false assumption. Rushing thru it does not equal bad content. There are player who consume content fast because they enjoy it and players who rush thru it because time is limited.

The issue with Apexis was there was no reason to do it. No story, no worthwhile reward. Tanaan fixed that somewhat with the baleful gear. Ion has discussed this at length.

And consuming content fast just to get it over with is bad, and is something Ion has addressed directly. When things get repetitive/too easy/boring it puts the game in a weird place. Content that scales with level and gear is in direct response to that issue.

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Oh no I know, and there's been a ton of really valuable discussion here. I just didn't have much to add and wanted to toss a laugh in.

I lol'ed. You were successful in your goal.

[Saracens]

I lol'ed. You were successful in your goal.

Good! I feel better, this is all srstalk all the time. Laugh people!

[wing5wong]

Yeah. How can Ashran be fine if so many people constantly complained about it?

Garrisons are not interesting at all. It is an experiment that went totally wrong. It was surely good for my gold income and also quite good for profession leveling and catch up, and I finally got all my characters completely outfitted with the largest available bags. It was also nice to have in terms of pet battle and pet leveling, especially with many alts to get the pet charms from the daily. That's it.

I wonder, how many people who think that Garrison is a good concept are the same people who once were all out against "welfare epics". Garrison totally put that to shame! Though, I currently prefer a mix of Tanaan/Kazzak, PvP (medaillons) and occasional HFC Normal cache gear from the TW quest to the items you get via Garrison missions, but in the first months, there have been plenty of welfare epics for doing almost nothing. Setting up a Garrison is a finite process with a fixed gold and time cost, but the profit increases with time as long as they don't deactivate the relevant missions.

Apexis dailys were horrible content. The only good thing they did about it was the option to gain quest progress by using items, not only by killing mobs. That's it. Filling up a bar mindlessly is an inferior design to a short quest chain or a bunch of quests with their own narrative. Now add to this either too much competition by other players, so you don't get anything to progress on your quest - because all people are funneled into 1 of 2 areas - or the prospect of joining a group to rush through...

Hint: If people just want to rush through, then the content is not that amazing. You just want to be done with it, because you need the benefits from the completion. In my case, I bought the ugly 50K apexis riverbeast because it adds one count to the 300 mounts achievement, and exactly one item for my main character, because the stats on the gear have been that bad. I was lucky that I worked on the achievement from early on, so by the time Pathfinder and its requirement were announced, I was already done with this mess.

MoP dailys have been a cause for burn-out, but only because there have been to many factions from the beginning, and that some of these factions have been gated by Lotus reputation. WoD apexis quests lead to bore-out, and in terms of reputation farming the worst thing ever happening in WoW.

I did not spent much time with WoD world endgame content, not only because it was not a great amount, but because the available content was digusting. Some things I did exactly once for the achievement, the rest only if it was efficient or contributed to my intended path of progression. Well, at least I got time for leveling so many alts.

The concept of a main path with side areas for pvp is great though - it funnels players into one another. AV etc literally set you up to bypass each other and rush and end boss. Maybe you've been in terrible groups. everything sucks in terrible groups.

Components of the garrison were new, and interesting. thats not to say the long term effect wasnt negative, but they offered something different. Was it something interesting for 18 months, no, but neither are daily quests or raids.

Apexis quests gave you freedom of which quests to do. You didnt have to go to Isle of queldanas and do the same fixed rotation. This is a good improvement over previous daily hubs, alongisde using items in the area to assist in progression, more than just clicking an item/killing a mob.

How can you complain about MoP dailies AND WoD dailies? which balance do you want? more quests? less quests?

Only the most casual of players would have seen WoD as a success.

But then again.. most of the changes they made for WoD were directly aimed at making WoW consumable in a couple hours a week.

Not the MMO it was.

Im clearly a casual player, yea?

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That is entirely exactly not what he said.

Go watch the interview before you spew BS.

Garrisons, world content, apexis, removal of dailies, etc. He admits they were poorly executed and was a overreaction to the complaints from MoP. And these were the reasons flight was removed.

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Pacing has nothing to do with it. There was no reason to do any of it, that was the problem. Ion even admits that in the June interview.

Seriously, go watch it before you spew anymore lies.

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Only Tanaan reps were tied to quests. The rest of Draenor is mob grinds. And there was nothing of note to be gained from those reputations. No reason to do them.

Instanced content has nothing to do with world content (or flying). And outside of raiding there was zero reason to do instanced content until valor was brought back.

Again go watch the interview. Ion discussed all that a year ago and referenced why it sucked.

All of this is entirely because you were rewarded so quickly for doing literally nothing. There was nowhere to go once you got started.
This is a pacing issue

There was one sole rep grind - shatari defense.
everything else offered collection or quests to get rep.

[Bun-Bun]

All of this is entirely because you were rewarded so quickly for doing literally nothing. There was nowhere to go once you got started.
This is a pacing issue

That is only in reference to everything being available straight from the Garrison, ie mining, herbs, gear from missions etc. Which was paced. Pacing isn't the issue.

Having no reason to go out into the world, to do the daily quests, to do instanced contents, that is the problem. Ion discussed this at length. You would know this if you watched his interview from last June.

Removing quests removed the lore. Having people blindly do objectives was not engaging. The reward was not worth the effort (apexis gear sucked). Also having the same currency throughout the xpac created issues as well which Ion explains in his interview.

All things handled better in WotLK, while allowing flight.

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There was one sole rep grind - shatari defense.
everything else offered collection or quests to get rep.

Arakkoa - lvl 100 mob grind to exalted
Council of exarchs - lvl 100 mob grind exalted
Steemwheedle Preservation Society - 100% mob grind (just hidden by a collecting item mechanic, but still a mob grind. This one wasn't too bad though. I grinded it out over a couple days.)

[wing5wong]

That is only in reference to everything being available straight from the Garrison, ie mining, herbs, gear from missions etc. Which was paced. Pacing isn't the issue.

Having no reason to go out into the world, to do the daily quests, to do instanced contents, that is the problem. Ion discussed this at length. You would know this if you watched his interview from last June.

Removing quests removed the lore. Having people blindly do objectives was not engaging. The reward was not worth the effort (apexis gear sucked). Also having the same currency throughout the xpac created issues as well which Ion explains in his interview.

All things handled better in WothLK, while allowing flight

Arakkoa - lvl 100 mob grind to exalted
Council of exarchs - lvl 100 mob grind exalted
Steemwheedle Preservation Society - 100% mob grind (just hidden by a collecting item mechanic, but still a mob grind. This one wasn't too bad though. I grinded it one out over a couple days.)

Gear from garrison was meaningless. 1 raid piece in 2 weeks.

Yes rewards sucked, there was no reason to do quests or grind reps. People complained about these things. They got removed. Then they complained more.
Sometimes people don't know what they want, and blizz fell for it in wod.

Arrakioa and council were rep quests. Not mob grinds.
Sps involved killing rares and collection. Not mob grinds.
Spin it how you like, but at the end of the day only one rep was a mob grind

Flight was nothing to do with the content in wotlk.
Wotlk had grinds. Wotlk had reps. Wotlk had progression. All things people argued to be toned down, and we ended up with wods iteration of dailies. Nothing to do with flight itself.

[Bun-Bun]

Gear from garrison was meaningless. 1 raid piece in 2 weeks.

Many people, myself include, were geared almost entirely from garrison missions and crafting. Caused a lot of progression issues.

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Yes rewards sucked, there was no reason to do quests or grind reps. People complained about these things. They got removed. Then they complained more.
Sometimes people don't know what they want, and blizz fell for it in wod.

Blizzard not listening to feedback and overeacting to complaints. Ion admitted this in his interview video.

[wing5wong]

Many people, myself include, were geared almost entirely from garrison missions and crafting. Caused a lot of progression issues.

If that was your choice of 'progression' it would literally take months and months. If you didn't bother to gear any other way(mythics,apexis) then that's on you

[Bun-Bun]

Arrakioa and council were rep quests. Not mob grinds.
Sps involved killing rares and collection. Not mob grinds.
Spin it how you like, but at the end of the day only one rep was a mob grind

You're wrong. Do you even play the game? You can not get to exalted without mob grinds for Arakkoa and Council of exarchs. Steemwheedle Preservation Society you get items instead of rep for killing mobs, same shit different pile. It's still mob grind.

Ion admitted that the above is poor design.

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If that was your choice of 'progression' it would literally take months and months. If you didn't bother to gear any other way(mythics,apexis) then that's on you

You could get better gear from garrison than the current content your guild was running.

[Lumineus]

Arrakioa and council were rep quests. Not mob grinds.

Really? Please link the associated repeatable quests from WoWhead. (this ought to be good, as the Apexis dailies didn't give any rep)

Sps involved killing rares and collection.

Oh, so it's a mob grind that consumes your bag space.

Not mob grinds.
Spin it how you like

loooooooooooooool

[Bun-Bun]

Flight was nothing to do with the content in wotlk.
Wotlk had grinds. Wotlk had reps. Wotlk had progression. All things people argued to be toned down, and we ended up with wods iteration of dailies. Nothing to do with flight itself.

And yet flight existed without issue. The complaints were to MoP, not WotLK. Ion admitted they overacted to the complaints from MoP which resulted in the crap known as WoD.

Edit:

Wait a minute. You just admitted those things have nothing to do with flight! So then put flight in again so those of us who want it can enjoy it.

[wing5wong]

You're wrong. Do you even play the game? You can not get to exalted without mob grinds for Arakkoa and Council of exarchs. Steemwheedle Preservation Society you get items instead of rep for killing mobs, same shit different pile. It's still mob grind.

Ion admitted that the above is poor design.

You got well into revered (and access tyothe main rewards, bar mount/tabard) through the quests.
I never said there was no mob killing at all

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Really? Please link the associated repeatable quests from WoWhead. (this ought to be good, as the Apexis dailies didn't give any rep)


Oh, so it's a mob grind that consumes your bag space.


loooooooooooooool

Where did i say repeatable quests?
I actually dont understand what you want to do to gain rep outside of quests, collection and killing. Enlighten me.

[Bun-Bun]

You got well into revered (and access tyothe main rewards, bar mount/tabard) through the quests.
I never said there was no mob killing at all

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Where did i say repeatable quests?

Scroll up and read your post. You said exactly "Not mob grinds"