BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Shadowmelded]

Labour isn't the issue, its the 25-30% that travel to the UK and go onto welfare. 77,000 of this years migrants I believe was the number of people I heard that were on benefits for this year alone.

Refugees will continue to be entitled to minimal benefits (barely even sustenance level) EU migrants can't claim benefits straight away and the ECJ ruled the UK can deny them benefits if they're not in work (they have to be in work to even come).

[Fadeslol]

No, Hillary has competent policies. Trump hasn't.

Obviously you never read his policies before. Hillary is shit for the US

[Graeham]

Discrimination against immigrants? Really?

No it's not that. They do not want people coming into their country un-vetted. How hard is that to understand.

It's not Discrimination for wanting to keep your people safe and follow your countrys laws.

I wasn't disagreeing. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people criticising the elderly for voting 'Leave' when the bulk of the 'Remain' campaign revolved around branding anyone concerned about immigration as a 'racist' or 'bigot'. A large portion of the 'Remain' voters (the vocal sort, at least) have handled themselves terribly - perhaps if they acted with a bit of grace and dignity the vote would have gone a different way - especially if their effort was put into trying to get a better deal out of the EU and acknowledge/address the concerns with it.

[Shadowmelded]

If the EU institute a punishment beatings, and the economy suffer. Less people will feel inclined to come here from less prosperous (e.g All) areas of the EU.

It wouldn't be punishment beatings. A Leave campaigner admitted that you have to have free movement of labour if you want access to the common market. Although with a recession looming I doubt many will be inclined to come here in the first place.

[Fadeslol]

I wasn't disagreeing. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of people criticising the elderly for voting 'Leave' when the bulk of the 'Remain' campaign revolved around branding anyone concerned about immigration as a 'racist' or 'bigot'. A large portion of the 'Remain' voters (the vocal sort, at least) have handled themselves terribly - perhaps if they acted with a bit of grace and dignity the vote would have gone a different way - especially if their effort was put into trying to get a better deal out of the EU and acknowledge/address the concerns with it.

Yea i realized that after i sent it xD. I'm sorry, i was just going on rage, im so sick and tired of people saying that.

[Bollocks]

It's not stupid at all. I thought a large part of the criticism directed at the 'Leave' supporters was the supposed discrimination against immigrants? Yet again the true colours of the supposed 'progressive' side rear its ugly head by finding a target to discriminate against themselves. Democracy doesn't work by forbidding the 'old' and experienced from voting - and let's not pretend as if many of the young people in the country (myself included) haven't been led astray by a very biased education system and mainstream media.

Its odd you mention mainstream media, when tabloids have the biggest impact in a country. And given that tabloid were all over: "We will invest our money into the NHS" (Which is false btw) and those damn inmigrants are ruining our country (which they have said they have no plan in stopping).Secondly considering the implications of a brexit were entirely handwaved by the brexit party, then to me those who voted for a Brexit were not informed enough as nothing will be gained from this. Also the irony if they decide to block scottish referendum.

[Graeham]

Yea i realized that after i sent it xD. I'm sorry, i was just going on rage, im so sick and tired of people saying that.

Heh. It's fine!

[Deleted]

What will be the Next Country to leave the Euro ?

GB was never party of the Euro currency they still have Pound Sterling.

[Deleted]

Is it true that only 30% of the 18-24 year olds even bothered to vote? That would be great. "The EU is so great, but I can't bother to put a note in a box every 45th year to keep us in it".

[Bollocks]

Obviously you never read his policies before. Hillary is shit for the US

I've read and then I made a comparison to Trump's platform, the to Bernie's one and came with the conclusion Hillary had the best economic policies.

[Fadeslol]

I've read and then I made a comparison to Trump's platform, the to Bernie's one and came with the conclusion Hillary had the best economic policies.

Oh really, Bernie and Trump have a better platform than Hillary. I don't even support Bernie because he is a socialist but he is better than Hillary. Hillary wants TTP, if she gets her way, the US will never recover and we are done.

[Graeham]

Its odd you mention mainstream media, when tabloids have the biggest impact. And given that tabloid were all over: "We will invest our money into the NHS" (Which is false btw) and those damn inmigrants are ruining our country (which they have said they have no plan in stopping). Considering the implications of a brexit were entirely handwaved by the brexit party, then to me those who voted for a Brexit were not informed enough.

Politicians have lied on both sides of the campaign. The NHS may very well be screwed over (I hope not) but it hasn't exactly been healthy with the strain put upon it by 'health tourism'. In many places trying to get an appointment or hospital bed is very difficult. Plus at least now the EU cannot be blamed and UK politicians themselves will have to be held accountable for their promises regarding the NHS.

I doubt the NHS will be left to die without a major fight, either.

[ati87]

Labour isn't the issue, its the 25-30% that travel to the UK and go onto welfare. 77,000 of this years migrants I believe was the number of people I heard that were on benefits for this year alone.

So when people complain about they took our jobs....they are what?

[Deleted]

So when people complain about they took our jobs....they are what?

Worried about the remaining 65-70% who don't go on welfare? I never understood why people who pretend to defend "Muh workin class" "teh puur" suddenly turn on the poorest and least educated who suffer the most from mass immigration and wagedumping.

[Deleted]

It's hilarious to read that some people already regret voting for leave - especially if they did so because they didn't think that it would matter.
Goob job, those people did their country a real service /s

[Bollocks]

Oh really, Bernie and Trump have a better platform than Hillary. I don't even support Bernie because he is a socialist but he is better than Hillary. Hillary wants NAFTA, if she gets her way, the US will never recover and we are done.

I know I shouldn't do this but I'll bite.

Trump's fatal errors economically:

- Tax plans is a disaster the cuts are too much and will leave the USA with a deficit spending that will let cost the USA 9.5 trillion dollars over the next ten years.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publi...rumps-tax-plan
- His plan to renegotiate the debt would more than likely crash the bonds, since most of the debt is owned by USA citizens. So only us citizens will be affected.

Bernie's fatal errors:

- Increase to 15$/hour too much, coupled with his tax plan are going to cause either massive unemployment or decrease in the GDP.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/det...ers-s-tax-plan

Economic Impact of Senator Sanders’s Tax Reform Proposals
GDP
-9.5%
Capital Investment
-18.6%
Wage Rate
-4.3%
Full-time Equivalent Jobs (in thousands)
-5,973

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

In case you were wondering how many of the claims made by VoteLeave were actually bullshit, the Independent has put together a list of the "top 8".



http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...s--WyxD59VO3Nb

1. We aren't going to see a fall in immigration levels

No one in the Leave campaign actually gave any target figures, at any time, ever. Conservative MEP Dan Hannan has already said this morning that people expecting immigration to come down will be "disappointed".


2. We aren't going to have an extra £100 million a week for the NHS

Nigel Farage has already told reporters today that the Leave campaign shouldn't have claimed that.


3. We aren't going to be able to stay in the single market

No other country has a set up like that: both France and Germany have made it abundantly clear that we are not going to be able to have our cake and eat it, ie, take advantage of the free-trade zone without contributing a single penny to it, as Leave says we will.

(I would question this one, because we could become a part of EFTA, although that would entail giving money to Brussels in return for freedom of movement of people)


4. We aren't going to get our sovereignty back

Looks like we're going to get a new prime minister by the end of the autumn Conservative party conference. It'll be a short list of two people, nominated by MPs.

This unelected leader could then theoretically hold office unopposed until a general election has to be called in three year's time.

P.S. We still have the House of Lords. So there's that.


5. We aren't going to save £350m a week

The Leave claim that the UK gives £350m a week to the EU has been thoroughly debunked. But it was still emblazoned on their battle bus right up until the end:

@JohnRedwood admits on R4 that @vote leave battle bus claim is "gross" #EUref #brexit pic.twitter.com/xu2uZO0u4w
— Graham Smith (@graysmith100) June 9, 2016


6. We won't remain a world leader in research and development

UK investment in science and universities has dried up since the recession, whereas the EU gave us £7bn in science funding alone between 2007 - 2013.

We're also going to face new barriers to collaboration with European universities and research centres.


7. We aren't going to save £2bn on energy bills

Leave promised we could end VAT on household energy bills. While that's possible, it won't save us any money in reality because we rely on imports for so much of our energy.

Because the pound has fallen, inflation will go up, which means imports and thus our domestic energy bills will cost up to 12 per cent more than they currently do.



8. We aren't going to be a 'greater' Britain

Overnight the UK economy has already slumped from the fifth largest in the world to sixth.

More than £200 billion has already been wiped from the value of the UK stock market - or put another way, 24 years' worth of UK contributions to the EU.


So essentially we retain the Status Quo, except we are worse off due to not being in the EU...

[Graeham]

It's hilarious to read that some people already regret voting for leave - especially if they did so because they didn't think that it would matter.
Goob job, those people did their country a real service /s

A tiny minority at best, I'd wager. I'm sure there's plenty of people who regret voting 'Remain' for similar reasons.

[Deleted]

fully aware voting leave is likely going to plumes the UK into recession. every recession however is undone, and afterwards i reckon the UK will be stronger as a result.

fwiw i was a leave voter in the south of england, woking (near guildford), where the majority voted remain. for me voting leave is a gain. i will benefit from a "worsened" pound due to the job i'm in.

But in the meanwhile, if the recession happens, the financial moves out from the UK to other countries and many other investors would do the same. After you recover after the recession, your economical market will be smaller than before.

Leaving from the EU doesn't stop Globalization on the rest of the world.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

But in the meanwhile, if the recession happens, the financial moves out from the UK to other countries and many other investors would do the same. After you recover after the recession, your economical market will be smaller than before.

Leaving from the EU doesn't stop Globalization on the rest of the world.

Dublin and Frankfurt are the most likely beneficiaries for the exodus of financial companies from the City of London.