[FIRE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Deleted]

Since PF is now a guaranteed crit, is there a real benefit to save them for Combustion ?

It seems the guaranteed crit part was geared towards using it outside combustion (which has been a concern for a while). But the increased recharge has the opposite effect.

PF is still the hardest hitting spell so I guess one will use it during combustion anyway because of cooldown stacking.

[Deleted]

Since PF is now a guaranteed crit, is there a real benefit to save them for Combustion ?

Right now you can get the following out of your combustion if you start with a hot streak (and it doesn't lag too badly):
Crit -> FB -> Combustion: Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, FB, Pyro, FB, Pyro

Seeing how the first Hot Streak will be achieved by using a Fireblast, if you use Flame On, you'll have 3 more Fire Blasts at your disposal for the rotation. That means you will want to have at least 2 Phoenix's Flames for your rotation because otherwise you're missing out. Additionally, saving a Phoenix's Flames to fire off at the end of that rotation, since it's a guaranteed crit now - will make it profit from Pyretic Incantation (and that is just so good) so you may want to do something like

Crit -> FB -> Combustion: Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, FB, Flame on, Pyro, FB, Pyro, FB, Pyro, PF

In any case, more instant casts during Combustion = more Pyro procs = more damage

Unless you have a substitute for PF as an instant crit hot streak procing ability, I don't see you not wanting to use them during combustion.



Obviously I may be totally wrong but that's what my gut tells me right now.

[Sarm]

That PFlames buff seems OP. It will make Pyros! extremely easy. I expect the spec to be extremely convenient for levelling now.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a benefit for leveling. The spec already has Fire Blast for guaranteed crits and PF is just redundant there, but at the cost of it being a 90 second cooldown instead of 30. Personally, this is just going to encourage me to sit on two charges "for emergencies" like I do any other longer cooldown and otherwise never use the spell instead of it being semi-rotational.

Since PF is now a guaranteed crit, is there a real benefit to save them for Combustion ?

Wouldn't the 100% bonus crit get translated into mastery? (Just told that it doesn't) I think you'd still want it to fuel more Pyroblasts during the cooldown.

[Dastey]

Wouldn't the 100% bonus crit get translated into mastery? Plus, you'd still want it to fuel more Pyroblasts during the cooldown.

I'm not at my PC so I can't confirmed, but I don't think Phoenix's flames apply ignite, which essentially makes the mastery during combustion useless for this ability

[Vakna]

Right now you can get the following out of your combustion if you start with a hot streak (and it doesn't lag too badly):
Crit -> FB -> Combustion: Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, FB, Pyro, FB, Pyro

Seeing how the first Hot Streak will be achieved by using a Fireblast, if you use Flame On, you'll have 3 more Fire Blasts at your disposal for the rotation. That means you will want to have at least 2 Phoenix's Flames for your rotation because otherwise you're missing out. Additionally, saving a Phoenix's Flames to fire off at the end of that rotation, since it's a guaranteed crit now - will make it profit from Pyretic Incantation (and that is just so good) so you may want to do something like

Crit -> FB -> Combustion: Pyro, PF, Pyro, PF, Pyro, FB, Flame on, Pyro, FB, Pyro, FB, Pyro, PF

In any case, more instant casts during Combustion = more Pyro procs = more damage

Unless you have a substitute for PF as an instant crit hot streak procing ability, I don't see you not wanting to use them during combustion.



Obviously I may be totally wrong but that's what my gut tells me right now.

As I said on the last page, why are you putting PF first in the combuston sequence? Wouldn't you be better of using Fire Blast's charges (since they cooldown quickly) first to stack Pyretic Incantation and get more damage out of PF's afterwards?

[Deleted]

As I said on the last page, why are you putting PF first in the combuston sequence? Wouldn't you be better of using Fire Blast's charges (since they cooldown quickly) first to stack Pyretic Incantation and get more damage out of PF's afterwards?

Probably, yes. I have actually started doing that on the beta. Probably good that you mention it, but won't change the fact that you'll likely keep banking PFs for Combustion

[Deleted]

I'm not at my PC so I can't confirmed, but I don't think Phoenix's flames apply ignite, which essentially makes the mastery during combustion useless for this ability

I'm 100% sure pf applies ignite to the targets it cleaves to at least.

[GemaRawr]

Phoenix Reborn now has a 10% proc chance instead of the 15% it used to have.

Either the patch got pushed while they were in the middle of testing some changes, or Blizzard really doesn't want us casting PF all that often.

[Superbriggs]

I'm 100% sure pf applies ignite to the targets it cleaves to at least.

I hope it does...currently the tooltip does not list Phoenix Flames as a source for Ignite though: Your target burns for an additional 6% over 9 sec of the total direct damage caused by your Fireball, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, Meteor, Cinderstorm, and Flamestrike. If this effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Ignite.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how this is supposed to be a benefit for leveling. The spec already has Fire Blast for guaranteed crits and PF is just redundant there, but at the cost of it being a 90 second cooldown instead of 30. Personally, this is just going to encourage me to sit on two charges "for emergencies" like I do any other longer cooldown and otherwise never use the spell instead of it being semi-rotational.

I didn't notice the time of recharge nerf so I exaggerated there. I still find the spell more serious now. The main way it can used now is to make the right decision, do you want the highest sustained damage, or get a pyro! now because you need it, or get more AOE now because you need it.

[Deleted]

I hope it does...currently the tooltip does not list Phoenix Flames as a source for Ignite though: Your target burns for an additional 6% over 9 sec of the total direct damage caused by your Fireball, Inferno Blast, Scorch, Pyroblast, Meteor, Cinderstorm, and Flamestrike. If this effect is reapplied, any remaining damage will be added to the new Ignite.

It has spread ignite to the other targets in the last few builds. But it could be a) unintended and subject to being fixed or b) a dot from the cleave which shares the name ignite.

The changes to pf and phoenix reborn essentially turns pf into more of a cooldown rather than a rotational ability if that makes sense. I can understand it to some extent because Pyroblast is in a weird spot when you cast pf often and rotationally. This change brings more symbolic value to pyroblast.

- - - Updated - - -

Guys -> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743706240?page=14#267

[Ganimah]

Love that they are going to do something about PF being less than 90. Probably going to drop to 60.

[The Archmage]

Love that they are going to do something about PF being less than 90. Probably going to drop to 60.

I am going for 45 secs CD, the fact that it autocrits doesen't empower it so much to justify 1 min recharge imho.

[Erolian]

When you were playing with Phoenix Reborn previously you had a few PFs to use outside of combustion while still trying to maintain having enough for your combustion CD. I was actually still getting at least one extra with this build between CD sets on 3 targets using Kindling. Whatever though the previous build created options and decisions via a surplus of PF between CD sets. When they increased the CD the only thing they did was remove most of the decision making and instead decided for you that almost all of them would be needed to generate enough pyroblasts during your combustion. Making them auto crit moved the threshold to just saying fuck combustion and dumping all of them for AoE down but if you've got that type of AoE you probably would have done that anyways and that frankly isn't a very tough decision. The change didn't do anything positive for the spec. It just made it slower and removed decisions.

[Deleted]

I don't know if all the mages sucked (we probably did) but after a few world bosses and LFRs I don't see fire mages be top on meters that easily. An exception is on AOE; they can be good, though it's not 100% because there are downtimes even on AOE, e.g. if your Living Bomb is on CD, you have used Cinderstorm and Blast Wave, there's not much else to do other than just Fireball or that long cast that takes forever (Flamestrike). It's a conundrum to me, Fire is convenient, Arcane looks inconvenient for that early content and Frost is average; it's still hard to pick a spec.

[whisperingsage]

Sigma
Game Designer
There may still have to be some tuning on Phoenix Flames, once we see how the auto-crit fits into the rotation. Overall it's an effect we like, and part of the reason is that it helps stop Combustion from being the only correct time to use PF. But the 90sec recharge is too long--that will be reduced next build.

That's a relief, but I don't know how they'll be able to stop saving it for Combustion being the best choice. Being instant means no time wasted on casting, which means fitting in more pyros. At least a shorter cd will mean a wipe or another pull won't be so awkward.

[Rothex]

The fact that PF is an instant cast, provides Ignite, and can proc Heating Up/Hot Streak is the reason why people want to fit as many Phoenixes into Combustion as they can to spam as many Pyros as possible. Increasing the recharge rate wont really affect people's intent of usage, it'll just force them to hoard as many Phoenixes as possible for Combustion and deter usage outside of it.

If they really wanted to force players to NOT use PF in Combustion, they'd give it a cast time (please no). Or make it so that it can't proc HS, which would also be not fun.

[Imnick]

I wonder if PF is going to get the "crit % boosts damage" effect that Destruction's auto-crit spells have generally enjoyed.

[antelope591]

Yeah that recharge timer for PF is complete AIDS...thank god its not lasting long

[Deleted]

What do you find to be the best "general purpose" setup for Damage-related talents? I went with Conflagration, Blast Wave, Living Bomb, Meter today to do some 5mans. It felt flowing well but there were downtimes since those Cooldowns aren't exactly 0 and my meters weren't impressive so I either did something wrongly (likely) or Rune of Power might be required (very likely) which would be kinda sad if true because there are some messy fights out there, especially at the start of expansions/5mans/pugs etc.

If they really wanted to force players to NOT use PF in Combustion

They don't. They don't want to make it useless at Combustion, they want to make it useful at other times too. If you played with it before the crit buff, it generally felt depressing to use it outside Combustion because if it didn't crit it didn't give anything too important, while now one can choose to either boost their Combustion (likely for the highest sustained damage possible), or effectively use it like a Fire Blast and get a Pyro! for some short term burst, or use it to AOE at arbitrary points.