1. #8001
    None of that is new RSinRC. Masochism isn't a talent. It's for people that pvp in legion :P

  2. #8002
    Dreadlord RsinRC's Avatar
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    Just reinforcing it from my experience. I know it isnt new and unfortunately I always leaned towards it being a tuning issue.

    Its all mechanical issues and lack of mechanics in the class' toolkit.

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    Last edited by RsinRC; 2016-06-25 at 10:57 AM.

  3. #8003
    Quote Originally Posted by RsinRC View Post
    Just reinforcing it from my experience. I know it isnt new and unfortunately I always leaned towards it being a tuning issue.

    Its all mechanical issues and lack of mechanics in the class' toolkit.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
    Yea, no guise, no feathers. Body and soul being our only speed increase (for 3 seconds), shadow mend being shadow school. No psychic horror and so on. Our tool kit has been properly gutted for pvp. Fear is was and always has been fucking useless since it breaks when tickled and half the melee classes can break it pretty much on demand anyway. Even MB has a cast time.

    It's pretty much a joke.

  4. #8004
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    It's pretty much a joke.
    Nah our toolkit is fine. We can rape casters just fine. Its the absolutely absurd melees. Unless melees get nerfed like in every possible department - damage, gap closers, def abilities, bursts, self-healing, etc, then I really see absolutely no way to even remotely be competitible in arenas.

    RBGs tho are a very different story, and that's where I think shadow priests would shine in Legion.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  5. #8005
    Dreadlord RsinRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Yea, no guise, no feathers. Body and soul being our only speed increase (for 3 seconds), shadow mend being shadow school. No psychic horror and so on. Our tool kit has been properly gutted for pvp. Fear is was and always has been fucking useless since it breaks when tickled and half the melee classes can break it pretty much on demand anyway. Even MB has a cast time.

    It's pretty much a joke.
    Even tho I agree with you I'm not necessarily worried about missing those abilities specifically. They can come up with new and innovative ways to deal with the same situations but the issues are so glaring. So in your face and really the good things about shadow is smooth pve rotations, awesome st. Great 3 target damage. But then it falls off. I spend the majority doing pvp and it isnt there for me. Even if they up my damage, damage isnt the problem. Is shadow now super niched into 3's arena? In BG's and rbg's we'll suffer from how useless Dispersion feels. How easy it is to stop my VF. How much uptime any class can have on me while all i can really do is spam swp, shield and SI procs. Maybe its the lack of the artifact weapon but damn, i shouldnt need a weapon to make my entire spec feel better. At least in wod leveling and bgs from lvl 24 and up was fun. So far in legion its pretty painful and this is from a guy whos always optimistic and tries to see things from the positive side. But this is rediculous.

    /rantoff. Heading in to work. Talk to you guys later.

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  6. #8006
    Quote Originally Posted by Nycros View Post
    Seriously?

    I thought locks were in a better place than us in PvP right now, what with essence drain and curse of weakness letting you survive for 0.3secs longer against the pain train.
    Well, I'm not talking about surviving, I think that's a SP's subconscious reaction to a pvp scenario xD

    What I was talking about was just affliction being the most boring / weakly designed spec ever ( at least to me and some others ), I mean seriously playing with my foot is more interesting than legion affliction :/

    Our dots outside of UA stacking are wet noodles, UA stacking is fine on ST but uptime on UA is abysmal and pretty much impossible to maintain with UA now an 8 sec dot, not to mention UA costing a shard too, They basically renamed devouring plague and gave it to us.
    Last edited by wholol; 2016-06-25 at 11:42 AM.

  7. #8007
    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    Well, I'm not talking about surviving, I think that's a SP's subconscious reaction to a pvp scenario xD

    What I was talking about was just affliction being the most boring / weakly designed spec ever ( at least to me and some others ), I mean seriously playing with my foot is more interesting than legion affliction :/
    Dunno, it looks to me like a TBC's drain tanking lock, which was absolutely best soloing class I've ever played, huntards included. Just dot everything around you and watch the world rot, while siphoning life from everything... I fail to see any power in weaky shitty dot-wannabies of shadow priest, those miserable sw_pain (not so big of a pain tho, more like a Shadow word: Short and unsignificant sting) and vampiric touch (more like a Vampiric pat). Affliction dots are the real stuff, every one of them feels like a critical chaos bolt stretched in time...

    I guess its just the grass is greener on the other side, indeed.

    Oh, and don't even get me started about Affliction's artifact
    Last edited by l33t; 2016-06-25 at 11:47 AM.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  8. #8008
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Dunno, it looks to me like a TBC's drain tanking lock, which was absolutely best soloing class I've ever played, huntards included. Just dot everything around you and watch the world rot, while siphoning life from everything... I fail to see any power in weaky shitty dot-wannabies of shadow priest, those miserable sw_pain (not so big of a pain tho, more like a Shadow word: Short and unsignificant sting) and vampiric touch (more like a Vampiric pat). Affliction dots are the real stuff, every one of them feels like a critical chaos bolt stretched in time...

    I guess its just the grass is greener on the other side, indeed.

    Oh, and don't even get me started about Affliction's artifact
    Yeah I used to love SL/SL in BC... when I was the Lock. :P

    Aff's artifact has 2 useless golden traits for PvP. I'm kinda disappointed tbh, thought they had got rid of most "on death" effects other than levelling helper passives.

  9. #8009
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Dunno, it looks to me like a TBC's drain tanking lock, which was absolutely best soloing class I've ever played, huntards included. Just dot everything around you and watch the world rot, while siphoning life from everything... I fail to see any power in weaky shitty dot-wannabies of shadow priest, those miserable sw_pain (not so big of a pain tho, more like a shadow word: short and unsignificant sting) and vampiric touch (more like a vampiric pat). Affliction dots are the real stuff, every one of them feels like a critical chaos bolt stretched in time...

    I guess its just the grass is greener on the other side.

    Oh, and don't even get me started about Affliction's artifact
    The grass is greener on the other side indeed

    Although I wonder where those " critical chaos bolts stretched in time" dots are , UA aside, all the other dots tickle, only a several stacked UA + compound horror is what you're noticing, which takes a while to pull off, barely lasts 8 secs, cant maintain it or spread it, it's devouring plague.

    On the other hand I see you guys have all these cool insanity toys and tentacles / firing lazorz and I'm like , damn son that looks fun :3

  10. #8010
    Quote Originally Posted by wholol View Post
    On the other hand I see you guys have all these cool insanity toys and tentacles / firing lazorz and I'm like , damn son that looks fun :3
    But we have no more tentacles (unless we're executing with StM). Some people whined so Blizzard nerfed them heavily, like you see first ones only around 20s in void form. Some of us even enjoy that, because they feel like they "are working to get tentacles".

    I guess for some people even huge server que is great, because they feel like they've worked on getting online
    Last edited by l33t; 2016-06-25 at 12:15 PM.
    No more time wasted in WoW.. still reading this awesome forum, though

  11. #8011
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Dunno, it looks to me like a TBC's drain tanking lock, which was absolutely best soloing class I've ever played, huntards included. Just dot everything around you and watch the world rot, while siphoning life from everything... I fail to see any power in weaky shitty dot-wannabies of shadow priest, those miserable sw_pain (not so big of a pain tho, more like a Shadow word: Short and unsignificant sting) and vampiric touch (more like a Vampiric pat). Affliction dots are the real stuff, every one of them feels like a critical chaos bolt stretched in time...

    I guess its just the grass is greener on the other side, indeed.

    Oh, and don't even get me started about Affliction's artifact
    Shadow's dots are significantly stronger than affliction's dots and are boosted even further by the fact that we get a ton of free haste from Voidform.

  12. #8012
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Dunno, it looks to me like a TBC's drain tanking lock, which was absolutely best soloing class I've ever played, huntards included. Just dot everything around you and watch the world rot, while siphoning life from everything... I fail to see any power in weaky shitty dot-wannabies of shadow priest, those miserable sw_pain (not so big of a pain tho, more like a Shadow word: Short and unsignificant sting) and vampiric touch (more like a Vampiric pat). Affliction dots are the real stuff, every one of them feels like a critical chaos bolt stretched in time...

    I guess its just the grass is greener on the other side, indeed.

    Oh, and don't even get me started about Affliction's artifact
    Having leveled both lock and shadow on beta I can tell you shadow feels a lot stronger, affliction dots kinda just tickle outside of UA(and even that doesnt hit that hard unless you have everything up). You can pull a few more mobs without dying than a shadowpriest but you kill them slower as well. Only reason I haven't completely decided on shadow over affliction is that if shadow turns out shit I would have to reroll, while as warlock i can just go another spec.

  13. #8013
    is this the lock forum or the priest one ?
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  14. #8014
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilir View Post
    is this the lock forum or the priest one ?
    You have a problem with discussing shadow in terms of bringing up other specs?

  15. #8015
    Quote Originally Posted by Killigrew View Post
    You have a problem with discussing shadow in terms of bringing up other specs?
    Yeah, because it makes me deal with the fact that Shadow is not the only spec with issues
    _____________________

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  16. #8016
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    if shadow turns out shit I would have to reroll, while as warlock i can just go another spec.
    Thats probably the biggest concern and the main thing stopping me maining shadow in legion, I want to DPS not heal so if they mess Shadow up or make a change I don't like I would need to reroll
    Battletag: Chris#23952 (EU)
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  17. #8017
    Quote Originally Posted by Avikur View Post
    Thats probably the biggest concern and the main thing stopping me maining shadow in legion, I want to DPS not heal so if they mess Shadow up or make a change I don't like I would need to reroll
    I am just planning to level up both my warlock and priest early on and try to get them both decently geared before raids start. I would much prefer to stay with priest as I find it a lot more enjoyable than warlock, and since my guild is only top 600 or so even if shadow isn't one of the top specs i can probably make up for it by just playing better, so the warlock is really just there in case Blizzard make the spec completely unplayable/unviable, which I doubt will happen.

    I also don't mind healing too much, so I will probably do that in 5 man's where shadow is likely to suck.

  18. #8018
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckens View Post
    I am just planning to level up both my warlock and priest early on and try to get them both decently geared before raids start. I would much prefer to stay with priest as I find it a lot more enjoyable than warlock, and since my guild is only top 600 or so even if shadow isn't one of the top specs i can probably make up for it by just playing better, so the warlock is really just there in case Blizzard make the spec completely unplayable/unviable, which I doubt will happen.

    I also don't mind healing too much, so I will probably do that in 5 man's where shadow is likely to suck.
    I'm sort of doing the same thing. I don't want to leave my priest behind and if it comes down to it I'll just switch to disc (or holy, whichever healing spec I find more enjoyable) and keep my warlock's main spec as close in artifact power as possible.

  19. #8019
    What if they gave shadow just a direct copy of Holy Nova, but called it Shadow Nova...is that too simple a solution to the aoe problem?

    Because do to my schedule, I will probably just be doing 5 man content, as its hard for me to for sure ever be able to follow a raid schedule. So I know the consensus right now is, shadow seems fine for raid, but meh for dungeons.

    The other concern, beyond just dps (which I know is being tuned) is the smoothness/funness of the spec to even play. If we are having to deal with the dots falling off due to the cast time of void explosion, that would be lame

  20. #8020
    Quote Originally Posted by Knifttar View Post
    The other concern, beyond just dps (which I know is being tuned) is the smoothness/funness of the spec to even play. If we are having to deal with the dots falling off due to the cast time of void explosion, that would be lame
    With a bit of gear that has haste on it, you won't run into that problem very often, if at all. If you're playing with Mind Spike (you're the devil if you pick Mind Spike) or Surrender to Madness it's inevitable that sometimes dots will drop off on a single target. I don't feel like this disrupts the flow of the rotation that much, though I will say that Legacy of the Void making it so that you don't have to worry about dots at all on single target is quite nice.

    Ultimately, only you can judge how smooth a spec plays or how fun you think the spec is. Legion shadow is not for everyone, so I wouldn't take anyone's word for how they think the spec plays. You can try it out on the PTR and sort of gauge what you think of it, but you will have to keep in mind that you don't have Void Torrent (which is a pretty important aspect to the spec) and Mindbender is currently bugged and doesn't generate Insanity (which affects the T18 setbonus a lot, of course).

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