BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Consternation]

if you count on brexit negotiations for more than 5 years, the EU has a huge baseball bat to swing: it's 2 years only until the gulliotine clause kicks you out in the cold. You'll need the consent of ALL other EU members to lenghten the process. dont count on it....

UK doesn't have to invoke leaving clause until it feels ready

[Deleted]

if you count on brexit negotiations for more than 5 years, the EU has a huge baseball bat to swing: it's 2 years only until the gulliotine clause kicks you out in the cold. You'll need the consent of ALL other EU members to lenghten the process. dont count on it....

It is more that if I have to work that bit harder now or have to make more personal sacrifices to secure what I believe is important to my family's future, I am then less likely to support a bunch of fluffy shit (quality of life , cultural stuff, pretty much anything that is non essential)in areas or demographics that cannot take care of themselves economically and haven't been able to for a long time. I doubt this is a rare reaction to what has happened. Some places/people will start crying about "the elite" then rather than the EU. I honestly don't care as much anymore.

[Consternation]

Think this is a pretty sound assessment. There is really no logical reason for the EU to play hard ball against UK as they still want as much trade as possible. UK is still a close ally to most Europe, people seem to forget that part.

Europhiles just feeling a bit bloodthirsty at the moment, they will calm down soon

[Deleted]

that is only your opinion of said matter, whether you can see that or not is not my problem.

No its reality.

Need to remind you of the shitstorm the EU has been facing with Greece? EU has overreached in it's power from what it was originally designed to be as, and they wanted out.

The EU has next to no power - and it was always designed, from day one, to have a political aspect to it.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Just thought I'd add my two cents: Brexit was voted democratically. It's ok to dislike it - just remember, you ARE the minority. 51.5% wanted to leave, after all.

true - it's just a shame that a large number of those 51.5% did not actually know what they were voting for

some of them will have voted because they wanted the £350 million pounds that we pay to the EU every week (lolololol) to go into the NHS as was promised - that has now been rubbished by the Leave side saying they should not have made that claim in the first place

some of them will have voted because they wanted to see less (in many cases much much less) immigration - that has now been rubbished by the leave side who point out they never actually mentioned a specific target for reducing immigration at all

so what did the people who voted leave actually vote for? a situation nothing changes for x years while the new leaders of the conservative party shit themselves trying to work out what to do (after never expecting to win in the first place), then we eventually accept some sort of Norwegian deal which is basically exactly the same as what we had as members of the EU - in terms of free movement of people (lol) and the amount of money we pay into the EU (lol) - except we now have absolutely no say in the decisions that Europe makes and can't push for changes we want, as we have been incredibly successful in doing previously

is that really what you think 51.5% of the people that voted actually wanted? rofl

[Valkaneer]

I support them leaving, they should not have to keep paying for people that refuse to balance their budget. In matter of fact when you look at Greece they have said, Hell no, were not going to stop spending in fact we're going to keep spending and your going to be forced to keep bailing us out or else your economy is going to take a hit. Basically Greece has had everyone by the balls in the EU, and they have done little to nothing to fix their issues. They keep spending and forcing every other country to pay for themselves to live the life they have voted on for themselves, on another country's coin.

Britain may take a hit now, but they will recover and from now on they will be paying their own bills instead of countries that want to hold other economies hostage, they are doing what is right for themselves in the long run. Good for them.

[Deleted]

You really have to ask the question of what is the point of the EU in the first place then.

If the UK gets a free trade deal and is deemed to have an advantageous position when compared to member states, I think it is the EU, not the UK that needs to do some pondering. Why there is this torrent of bullshit that must come with being part of the single market is precisely why there was a referendum in the first place.

Because they are fundamental requirements of having a single market - that there are idiots who cannot grasp that, well I wanted the UK to leave.

Precisely, if the EU has to bully their members into staying what exactly are we doing here?

They wont bully the UK - But there wont be a nice deal, because the terms are already laid out - if they want single market they need to accept free movement of people - the UK has a take it or leave it position.

[darklady]

51.5% of those who voted is around 26% of the population.

That's a little misleading. A large chunk of the population wasn't allowed to vote, due to not meeting residency requirements. Mostly immigrants. Of the eligiBle voters, only 70% voted in the referendum. Which is nothing to sneeze at, still 30% of the people who could have had a say, chose not to.

[Valkaneer]

is that really what you think 51.5% of the people that voted actually wanted? rofl

One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors. - Plato

[Bollocks]

Well said. This was put to a vote. I was listening to BBC radio yesterday, and some stupid remain voter said she disliked referendums, Because they create "dictatorship By majority." Her words. Better educated people call that democracy, and democracy spoke in the UK on Thursday.

This Bullshit aBout people not being educated enough to make a sound decision that's good for everyone (translation: people who disagree with me) Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, every slave owner, and misogynist felt the exact same way.

Buts its true. What's the benefit of leaving the EU?

[Deleted]

51.5% of those who voted is around 26% of the population.

As I recall there's around 10 million <18 in the UK so you'll need to deduct that from your calculation as they were ineligible.

[Kalis]

That's a little misleading. A large chunk of the population wasn't allowed to vote, due to not meeting residency requirements. Mostly immigrants. Of the eligiBle voters, only 70% voted in the referendum. Which is nothing to sneeze at, still 30% of the people who could have had a say, chose not to.

Also quite a lot were not eligible to vote as they are too young to vote, tollshot based that 26% on the entire population figure.


Edit: Miuku beat me to the same point.

[Valkaneer]

That's a little misleading. A large chunk of the population wasn't allowed to vote, due to not meeting residency requirements. Mostly immigrants. Of the eligiBle voters, only 70% voted in the referendum. Which is nothing to sneeze at, still 30% of the people who could have had a say, chose not to.

You mean refugees and those who come just for welfare benefits? Or those who just showed up recently? Those who don't have skin in the game should not be making the decision. Laws are in place for a reason, and one's like this where they don't want people who don't meet the residency requirements driving the train for millions of people who have live there for years and payed their time and coin to support the country.

[Deleted]

Buts its true. What's the benefit of leaving the EU?

If I were to pick one reason to leave EU, apart from their complete impotence on dealing with issues (Russia, Greece, Refugees, corruption, inequality, ignorance of issues of the normal people, the list goes on) it would be their fucking retarded detached from reality directives.

They've made directives that are so detached from reality that you have to go smoke crack before you can come up some of the stupidity they've actually put forward.

[Afrospinach]

51.5% of those who voted is around 26% of the population.

Well then bitch to the people had to watch stictly come dancing or whatever(because we all know they would have voted the correct way yes? ie remain?). Those that did not vote are going with the majority so really this kind of logic is just bullshit. It was also a pretty good turnout for any kind of referendum too, do not forget that.

[Dizzeeyooo]

They've made directives that are so detached from reality that you have to go smoke crack before you can come up some of the stupidity they've actually put forward.

out of interest, do you mind linking some of those?

[Macaquerie]

If I were to pick one reason to leave EU, apart from their complete impotence on dealing with issues (Russia, Greece, Refugees, corruption, inequality, ignorance of issues of the normal people, the list goes on) it would be their fucking retarded detached from reality directives.

They've made directives that are so detached from reality that you have to go smoke crack before you can come up some of the stupidity they've actually put forward.

Realistically though, what chance is there that your national governments could do a better job tackling these issues?

[Cosmic Janitor]

If I were to pick one reason to leave EU, apart from their complete impotence on dealing with issues (Russia, Greece, Refugees, corruption, inequality, ignorance of issues of the normal people, the list goes on) it would be their fucking retarded detached from reality directives.

They've made directives that are so detached from reality that you have to go smoke crack before you can come up some of the stupidity they've actually put forward.

Mind to provide one that actually affected you?
Edit: And don't bother with the banana thing, because I will refute you this one on the spot.

[Valkaneer]

Buts its true. What's the benefit of leaving the EU?

Not having your economy controlled by those who do not want to balance their own budget and force you to pay for them to keep spending. Even though you can't vote on their budget proposals or social programs. Do you understand that another country can vote on their own budget to flood their own country with social benefits till their economy collapses, and then force you to pay for it so that your economy does not collapse as well.

[Bollocks]

If I were to pick one reason to leave EU, apart from their complete impotence on dealing with issues (Russia, Greece, Refugees, corruption, inequality, ignorance of issues of the normal people, the list goes on) it would be their fucking retarded detached from reality directives.

They've made directives that are so detached from reality that you have to go smoke crack before you can come up some of the stupidity they've actually put forward.

The thing is that none of those issues were affecting the UK and are already ingrained in the UK political system. And the UK recieves a lot of benefits from the EU, literally the only reason the UK has even a lead of scientific development its for the EU. Subsidies that the EU gave to farmers and entire towns that only live from EU subsidies.
I can't argue with that, needless to say its stupid to leave for that reason alone.