BLIZZARD SHAME ON YOU! Future early game...

[classic username]

How about, you seek out challenge where it's meant to be? Or is that a step too far when it comes to your capability? Actually, it seems to be more than most people whinging about "challenge" can handle in reality...

I wouldn't mind it if they upped health and damage in low level dungeons to make mobs last long enough for certain classes to hit them, but they'd still not be challenging to anyone with even mediocre skill due to mechanics. And Blizzard wasting time balancing those to challenge the best of us is a retarded notion.

a tank without heirlooms is getting destroyed... you want them to get oneshotted ?

[DarkAmbient]

They are blessing for new players as those don't get their gear constantly stolen.

If only this were true. I still see heirloomed vets needing on newb gear because transmog.

[Lime]

That's why the OP suggested to keep the XP bonus.

Which doesn't change anything regarding tedium. And unless the XP bonus is significantly buffed to counter the additional time the dungeons take due to "challenge", it'd end up being much, much slower.

And making low level dungeons challenging is near impossible due to the massive class imbalance at lower levels. There are classes that can do more than 3 times the DPS of other DPS classes.

OP is asking for them to drop everything to re-balance low level dungeons, re-balance low level class design, and re-design heirlooms all for the sake of 1 playstyle - the people who want a challenging leveling experience, which neither of you have any indication of how many people actually want the challenge.

So no, it's a bust.

[Soisoisoi]

How exactly do new players get heirlooms?

Well, they can quite easily by buying them, especially if they've bought a token that'd easily cover every single heirloom including upgrades for a spec. (~24.5k iirc). But that wasn't the person you quoted's point.

[Vargrik]

Which doesn't change anything regarding tedium. And unless the XP bonus is significantly buffed to counter the additional time the dungeons take due to "challenge", it'd end up being much, much slower.

And making low level dungeons challenging is near impossible due to the massive class imbalance at lower levels. There are classes that can do more than 3 times the DPS of other DPS classes.

OP is asking for them to drop everything to re-balance low level dungeons, re-balance low level class design, and re-design heirlooms all for the sake of 1 playstyle - the people who want a challenging leveling experience, which neither of you have any indication of how many people actually want the challenge.

So no, it's a bust.

IMHO a boost on the XP bonus would be a nice compensation for the stats removal.

[Dormie]

low level dungeons has never been meant to be challenging ever

Worst excuse ever


It's not that they're not "challenging", they're a completely broken mess.

[Dormie]

You would think Blizz would put a little more focus on early content considering that's what's going to be the first impression of the game to a new player. Anyone interested in WoW from seeing the movie would probably say screw this dumb shit by level 30.

[Drilnos]

I laughed at the "seek challenge where it's meant to be" comment. Dungeons, which require 5 people, are supposed to be more challenging than questing, which requires one. At low levels, that's where the challenge is supposed to be. That's why they have high experience rewards, because it's supposed to be a trade-off in exchange for increased difficulty. Needless to say, it isn't anymore. I sympathize with the OP. I've been in runs like that, and Deadmines is especially vulnerable due to being at the bottom end of the level range. It gets less noticeable the higher you get.

Even the detractors admit dungeons aren't fun anymore at the low levels. To them I would suggest petitioning the ability to acquire experience by going afk and watching funny cat videos, since it would require approximately the same attention span and not break the dungeon experience for those who would otherwise actually appreciate it.

[Armourboy]

I think too many people are confusing challenge with speed of leveling. We all understand that a player that has been around for 10 years doesn't want to spend months leveling a new character. This is why so many suggest the potion idea.

The problem, and really what the OP was getting at, was how easy the stats make things. Some of it is tuning, ability creep, although definitely not talent creep, at 15 you only have the speed boosts for most classes.

It was one of the nice things about Nostalrius, kind of getting a feel for how things were again. Was it more difficult or were we just fooling ourselves? VC wasn't mechanically hard, that it never has been, but you could die pretty easily if you weren't careful. Really that's the overall difference between now and then. Mechanically speaking things were probably easier than they are now, but the tuning was much higher. Hogger, Jinth'alor, the Elites in STV required more team work than today's instances do.

Some of that is because they wanted to make things easier for solo play. Some of it was unintended I believe such as the stats on heirloom gear.

Really it won't matter though, it's something I was complaining about years ago. They didn't care then and won't care now.

[Deletedaccount1]

Nothing in the game is working as intended, even the shit that Blizzard focuses on. Things like this that are way in the background get completely fucked as a result and they will likely never be fixed.

[nekobaka]

I agree on this one, the game is so noob friendly it feels like fishing with dynamite.

I would not say so much that it is noob friendly as it is focused on catering to rerollers and altohalics who want to rush to endgame while also getting newbies to endgame asap. For the later is why a boost comes with the game now. New and returning players can skip the trivially boring stuff and play with the bulk of the playerbase much sooner rather than get bored and leave.

Unfortunately even using the boost and getting to more relevant content does a bad job at preparing newbies and noobs for endgame leaving a large smack in the face that then presents both a deterrent and situation of complaints that then leads to more content getting gutted leading to a non-engaging gameplay of monotonous chores.

low level dungeons has never been meant to be challenging ever

Challenging, no. Trivial and soloed at appropriate level, no. Dungeons from the get go was designed as group based content that required teamwork of the whole team at appropriate level.

Might as well just turn dungeons into scenarios.

[Jngizu]

I think a solution to that would be implementing a system that would allow veteran players to earn a free boost. For example, if you subscribe for 6 months straight, you get a free boost. Or create a long in-game grind that would require a few months to complete, whatever it may be.

Because while it's true that veteran players blasting through dungeons is not fun for new players, having to go through all the leveling is a pain in the ass. Even more so when you get to the higher levels and have to deal with newer players that have no idea how to play. Because then, even if you're full heirlooms, you will wipe. Now I get that it's not their fault and I don't blame them, but it's very frustrating.

Or do it in a way that if you wear heirlooms, you can't tag in LFD but increase the EXP bonus.

[kunah]

Same for pvp. Not fun getting one shot all day in a bg full of heirlooms.
They are a curse. Yet another reason for legacy servers.

[Packing an i5]

do i want it to be as tough and long as it was before in the old days? No been there done that on a few characters never again. It did make leveling feel more special though once it was over and stopped people from constantly rerolling which I think is lame.

However that being said leveling today in wow is an utterly pathetic. Quick and easy ding 5 times before being finished with a zone.

[Xkiller9000]

make heirlooms give 2-5% xp boost, and no extra stats
make the xp bonus a buff or something, not gear

[FelPlague]

i love how people are like "come on when i start leveling it takes like 3 shadowbolts to kill a mob, this is so fucking easy, it must be so boreing for new players"

but has anyone thought that for new players it is not as easy? and they dont know everything, like what stats to equip, what to do, what spells to use, anything, also new players ussauly dont do dungeon finder

[Foj]

i love how people are like "come on when i start leveling it takes like 3 shadowbolts to kill a mob, this is so fucking easy, it must be so boreing for new players"

but has anyone thought that for new players it is not as easy? and they dont know everything, like what stats to equip, what to do, what spells to use, anything, also new players ussauly dont do dungeon finder

I enjoyed not knowing what the hell I was doing the first few weeks and months I was playing WoW. It wouldn't have been more fun if it was also "hard." There's plenty of hard stuff to do after you decide you like the game.

[khazmodan]

I would not say so much that it is noob friendly as it is focused on catering to rerollers and altohalics who want to rush to endgame while also getting newbies to endgame asap. For the later is why a boost comes with the game now. New and returning players can skip the trivially boring stuff and play with the bulk of the playerbase much sooner rather than get bored and leave.

Unfortunately even using the boost and getting to more relevant content does a bad job at preparing newbies and noobs for endgame leaving a large smack in the face that then presents both a deterrent and situation of complaints that then leads to more content getting gutted leading to a non-engaging gameplay of monotonous chores.

Challenging, no. Trivial and soloed at appropriate level, no. Dungeons from the get go was designed as group based content that required teamwork of the whole team at appropriate level.

Might as well just turn dungeons into scenarios.

This describes the current problem so well

[Shikikitty]

Deadmines without heirlooms on a level 20 disc priest is easily solo-able until Ripsnarl, +1 other person without looms and Ripsnarl would be easy. Even without heirlooms a group of 5 in deadmines destroys mobs really quickly. There's really no difference.

[Foj]

Deadmines without heirlooms on a level 20 disc priest is easily solo-able until Ripsnarl, +1 other person without looms and Ripsnarl would be easy. Even without heirlooms a group of 5 in deadmines destroys mobs really quickly. There's really no difference.

Low level deadmines had the crap nerfed out of it. I don't really care one way or the other about it. The corpse walk is sure better though.