1. #8801
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Is that margarine?
    Whatever it is I can believe it's not butter.

    Here we go...

    http://www.valio.fi/tuotteet/voi-ja-...a/#250-g-rasia

    "The product contains 52% milk fat and 23% rapeseed oil." *via google translate
    Last edited by klogaroth; 2016-06-25 at 05:21 PM.

  2. #8802
    Quote Originally Posted by Consternation View Post
    They were both before the referendum in order to try and deter a leave vote. Find me one since the referendum and ill believe you
    http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...warns-ECB.html

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-referend...europe-1567428

    http://sputniknews.com/europe/201606...it-market.html

    there you go

  3. #8803
    Quote Originally Posted by Consternation View Post
    Prob nothing other than Camerons renegotiation would be gone and incredible hostility towards UK
    If UK had to rejoin I would guess that even Thatcher's rebates would be largely gone. That's why stopping the leave-process might be important.

  4. #8804
    Quote Originally Posted by Bollocks View Post
    But the UK already has control of their economic policies. They aren't giving that money to the NHS as they promised, I assume that money will have to go to pay the subisidies the EU were paying in the UK. And the UK still profited greatly from the EU, so the benefits greatly outweight the "downside".
    Only because Germany footed most of the bill. What happens when other countries stop bailing out Greece? Spain is also becoming a problem. You can't keep saying that bail out after bail out is making the UK more money. How's the value of the Euro since all of this started? It's not higher than it was before Greece started their collapse. Bailing them out stopped the crash but the value of the Euro does not go up every time a country is bailed out.

  5. #8805
    There you don't go. They are speculating before the referendum as can be seen from the texts - but possibly late with publishing.

  6. #8806
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post
    I definitely think the EU needs to punish the UK. They'll be punished indirectly for trying to pivot as a world leader without a united Europe, but the EU is going to protect their banks and compete against the only thing the UK has going for it. You can't just walk into the EU, take everything you want, and say fuck all to the rest.

    It needs to be a benefit to be a part of the EU. Even without punishment, it's a disadvantage, but I would definitely place punishment on top of it. You don't want to negotiate favorable trade deals.
    LoL as if Greece did not?

  7. #8807
    Deleted
    Interesting that the UK stock markets finished Friday only 3% down, but other major markets across Europe plunged, some up to 12%.

  8. #8808
    I see 'may' and 'could' and you've linked basically the same article three times. Before the vote it's definitive no's from financial ministers now it's speculation from a banker?

  9. #8809
    Deleted
    Most of you EU fanatics don't even realize how much we are getting screwed over by these globalists. I can name one, just ONE think the EU has done to improve Sweden and that one thing is something my own government could have done a lot sooner and a lot easier on it's own.

  10. #8810
    Quote Originally Posted by epLe View Post
    Thing is people in most european countries still remember how it was before EU existed.
    When EU members and the non-members all feel that EU only complicates things due to politics, everyone starts to think it was better before.
    This awkward child "EU" is only a political powerhouse, which struggle so much internally that schizophrenia would be a kind diagnostic.

    Different EU countries do not care the slightest for the other.
    People feel their nationality, and being "european" means nothing. We are not americans.
    If you were Americans you would have actual meaningful differences to deal with, not just a bunch of white people too attached to outdated labels to work together for the common good.

  11. #8811
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    If UK had to rejoin I would guess that even Thatcher's rebates would be largely gone. That's why stopping the leave-process might be important.
    Idd if it rejoined, but it hasn't left yet

  12. #8812
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Well, it means you can no longer call it butter - although technically and biologically speaking it is
    Quote Originally Posted by klogaroth View Post
    http://www.valio.fi/tuotteet/voi-ja-...a/#250-g-rasia

    "The product contains 52% milk fat and 23% rapeseed oil."
    only 52% milk fat

    so not butter

    not sure what the problem here is other then an EU directive preventing false advertising?

    do you have any more 'humorous' examples for us to look at Miuku?
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2016-06-25 at 05:19 PM.

  13. #8813
    Quote Originally Posted by MissMin View Post
    Bit long, but I saw this posted and thought it was quite good.

    "
    So why did you vote to leave?

    Its treaties taken together make, as Tony Benn once said, the “only constitution in the world committed to capitalism.” They place serious restrictions on public ownership, committing member states to open up public services to competition.
    A Labour government determined to take our railways and postal services back into public hands would soon run into trouble with the EU. To his credit, Jeremy Corbyn has indicated that this is a fight he would not shy away from. But it is undeniable that taking back what’s ours would be easier if we were not subject to the EU treaties, which can only be altered by unanimous agreement among all 28 member states.

    As well as being anti-socialist, the EU is undemocratic, in that its elected parliament is toothless, lacking even the formal power to initiate legislation; the orders are issued by the unelected Commission and the Central Bank.

    But worse, it is actively anti-democratic. It overrides democracy. Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker said when the people of Greece voted for a government that would end austerity: “There can be no democratic choice against the EU treaties.”
    Greece’s government was humiliated and ministers elected specifically to carry out a left-wing programme were forced to implement the most extreme programme of privatisation and cuts anywhere on the continent.

    Those who argue that austerity is a choice being made at a national level should ask why it is then that governments ostensibly on the left in France and Italy are attacking workers’ rights and public spending just as viciously as governments of the right. Seemingly it doesn’t matter who we Europeans elect any more: austerity is what we get.

    Some imply that a dislike of the EU is a peculiarly British phenomenon. But the reality is that few of Europe’s citizens have ever been given a choice.

    When they have, they have usually rejected what’s on offer — only for the EU to impose it anyway.

    The French rejected the EU Constitution, so it was incorporated into the Lisbon Treaty. The Irish rejected that, and were told to vote again till they got the right answer. This is an organisation with contempt for the voters at its core.

    Most on the left agree that the EU’s treatment of Greece was outrageous. Many would agree that it is anti-socialist and unaccountable. But we should stay in and reform it, they argue.

    Unfortunately, no plausible strategy for doing so has been put forward. The EU is designed to resist reform: hence the requirement for unanimity among member states before any treaty is altered.

    Acts of mass popular resistance, such as the millions-strong cross-border petition against TTIP, are simply ruled out of order by the Commission.

    Even so, a large number of socialists and trade unionists are convinced that a vote to Remain is the lesser of two evils.
    Some say leaving would cost us skilled jobs, pointing to threats from major manufacturers that they might relocate if we withdraw from the EU.

    But those threats should be seen for what they are — blackmail by the bosses. When the super rich whinge that they will flee London if we make them pay their fair share of tax, we ignore them.

    Giant corporations support membership of the EU because big business benefits from it. But membership can hardly have been good for British manufacturing, which has been decimated over the last four decades.

    EU bans on state aid to industry actually hinder efforts to protect our productive economy. Italy has been taken to court by the EU for trying to assist its steel industry.

    Others say that we face a bonfire of our rights by the Tories if we leave the EU with them in charge.
    But we’re facing a bonfire of our rights now. Since 2010 the Tories have slapped the Gagging Act and the Trade Union Act on our labour movement, have introduced massive fees for accessing employment tribunals, have vowed to “kill off the health and safety culture for good.”

    The EU hasn’t lifted a finger.
    Remainers who say the NHS isn’t safe with Michael Gove or Boris Johnson are absolutely right. But the NHS isn’t safe with Cameron either, as the Health and Social Care Act showed. And it certainly isn’t safe with TTIP, the secretive treaty being negotiated by the EU with the United States.

    The third and gravest point made by socialists for Remain is that a Leave victory would fuel racism, anti-immigrant bigotry and far-right violence.

    An obsession with immigration by the right-wing leaders of the Leave campaign has given this some weight. But we should be careful. The far right is on the march across Europe, in France, Austria and Hungary.

    Falling wages, mass unemployment and battered public services are feeding the resentment that gives birth to fascism. And the EU’s commitment to endless austerity contributes to that.

    Nor is the EU’s record on racism good. A deal with Turkey widely condemned as illegal has allowed it to wash its hands of desperate refugees. In Ukraine it supported a fascist-backed coup against an elected government. When France decided to deport tens of thousands of Roma in 2009-10, the EU looked the other way.

    There is no evidence that a Remain vote would help defeat the far right. The struggle against racism and intolerance is one we will have to wage either way.

    Since the beginning of the neoliberal era in the 1980s, we have seen corporate power strengthened at the expense of democracy again and again.

    The “big bang” deregulated the banks, putting big finance beyond our control. Independence for the Bank of England removed our ability to set interest rates. Global trade treaties are giving private companies the right to enter new markets whatever the people think about that, and increasingly the right to sue governments if they don’t like their policies.
    The EU is part and parcel of all this.
    "
    Excellent read!

  14. #8814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkaneer View Post
    Only because Germany footed most of the bill. What happens when other countries stop bailing out Greece? Spain is also becoming a problem. You can't keep saying that bail out after bail out is making the UK more money. How's the value of the Euro since all of this started? It's not higher than it was before Greece started their collapse. Bailing them out stopped the crash but the value of the Euro does not go up every time a country is bailed out.
    But the UK still uses the pound. So lets assume the euro crash and the UK its not in the EU. It would still affect them as the UK sells most of its exports towards the EU, so a devaluation in their currency would affect the UK as well, even if the UK left the EU.

  15. #8815
    Quote Originally Posted by MissMin View Post
    Interesting that the UK stock markets finished Friday only 3% down, but other major markets across Europe plunged, some up to 12%.
    The sterling dropped by 7% compared to the Euro. So, the UK stock market in fact dropped by 10% for people in the Euro-zone.

  16. #8816
    Quote Originally Posted by Consternation View Post
    Idd if it rejoined, but it hasn't left yet
    True, but the question is that once it gives it resignation-notice - can that be stopped later, or is the only possibility to rejoin?
    It seems practically certain that the UK will send in that resignation-notice - so you might as well consider it done.

    I did not see that article 50 included some way to stop the leaving - just delay it.

  17. #8817
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurinaux View Post
    Give me a moment to read your previous posts to see if I should actually continue this one...
    Alexis Tsipras was elected to tell the EU to go screw themselves. To say, hell no were not going to cut our spending, we will do as we please even if your economy is going to tank because of it, hell if we don't get what we want everyone is going to crash and burn with us. Greece knows that if their country fails the EU is going to crash. You think the EU would ever of bailed out Greece if Greece's economy would not have crashed the EU? Of coarse not.

  18. #8818
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    only 52% milk fat

    so not butter

    not sure what the problem here is other then an EU directive preventing false advertising?

    do you have any more 'humorous' examples for us to look at Miuku?
    Well from a central European perspective it's a product that wanted to be butter but then someone diluted it with cheap plant oil. But the question now is if that is some widely accepted special Finish cuisine and they just always called it butter. I guess you might be able to make a case then that it is traditionally known as butter in Finland which means they could have kept the name at least there. They might still need another name in the rest of the EU though, but name disputes are as old as any modern form of trading, as we've seen with the M&M case last week.

  19. #8819
    Quote Originally Posted by Forogil View Post
    True, but the question is that once it gives it resignation-notice - can that be stopped later, or is the only possibility to rejoin?
    It seems practically certain that the UK will send in that resignation-notice - so you might as well consider it done.

    I did not see that article 50 included some way to stop the leaving - just delay it.
    Not sure, its not a very long document, guess we will find out :P

  20. #8820
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    Sorry, it's not. I can link you the article discussing the name change and the reason for it but I doubt you'll be able to translate it via Google Translate.

    https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oivariini

    They had to rename the entire product lineup because of it.
    That is not butter by any respectable standard.

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