Sturgeon is being too divisve at a time nation needs unity

[klogaroth]

Their plan at the last general election was to form an alliance with Labour after all, but Labour went and fucked it all up for them by not winning enough seats in England.

I don't remember an EU referendum being on the cards had they managed to pull that off, but the Scottish referendum would have been a good insurance policy had it turned out the way it did.

[Macaquerie]

Wouldn't it make more sense for England to be the one that "secedes" from the UK so that Scotland can inherit their EU membership?

[xChurch]

I was against the Scots leaving before this but now, the Brits made their choice to go it alone and now they'll see just how lonely it can get.

[yinyatto]

So the people that want to leave are saying its for the betterment of the UK well RiP UK theres not gonna be one the scotts will leave northern ireland wants out and wales will likely call for a referendum if the scotts one succeeds

[Kalis]

Wouldn't it make more sense for England to be the one that "secedes" from the UK so that Scotland can inherit their EU membership?

No, because there are four members of the Union, so if one wants to leave then they leave, not the other three who would still be in union.

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So the people that want to leave are saying its for the betterment of the UK well RiP UK theres not gonna be one the scotts will leave northern ireland wants out and wales will likely call for a referendum if the scotts one succeeds

When did Northern Ireland say they want out? And what makes you think Wales will call for one?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Can someone catch me up... what are the pros and cons of Scotland leaving?

[taliey]

I just lol when people make accusations.

[klogaroth]

When did Northern Ireland say they want out? And what makes you think Wales will call for one?

Sinn Fein are after Irish unification, but that's hardly news. They're just repeating it a bit louder now.

[Deleted]

She's an irritating cow. That face, that hair and that accent - ugh.

[Kalis]

Can someone catch me up... what are the pros and cons of Scotland leaving?

Pros:

They can join the EU.

Cons:

They leave one union (in which they get a minimal say), to join another union (in which they will get even less of a say).
They rely on oil to balance their budget, current oil prices make that impossible.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Pros:

They can join the EU.

Cons:

They leave one union (in which they get a minimal say), to join another union (in which they will get even less of a say).
They rely on oil to balance their budget, current oil prices make that impossible.

Not sure that the pros outweigh the cons, heh.

[GennGreymane]

Not sure that the pros outweigh the cons, heh.

I am confused

they even have minimal say?

[tehealadin]

Westminster will not agree to any new referendum at this moment, so it seems a bit pointless to ask for one, especially as there is no actual mandate to hold one.

I disagree, there is a mandate, this was a significant material change in circumstances, we voted to remain in the EU, the English voted to leave, we must now follow different paths. I voted no the last time. I wanted to believe in the UK, have solidarity with my brothers and sisters in England. Then the general election happened and I realised how different we were. Though the Tories only had 34% (or a figure in that region) of the vote, I held onto hope. Now this shows just how different we are. I will be voting yes this time. I'd rather be in an independent Scotland which is part of the EU than in the UK that isn't. And I am willing to bet that there are enough no voters from last time round who are feeling the same way that I am.

[Kalis]

I am confused

they even have minimal say?

They have proportionally more say than they should have and also have a say in matters that they should not have.

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I disagree, there is a mandate, this was a significant material change in circumstances, we voted to remain in the EU, the English voted to leave, we must now follow different paths. I voted no the last time. I wanted to believe in the UK, have solidarity with my brothers and sisters in England. Then the general election happened and I realised how different we were. Though the Tories only had 34% (or a figure in that region) of the vote, I held onto hope. Now this shows just how different we are. I will be voting yes this time. I'd rather be in an independent Scotland which is part of the EU than in the UK that isn't. And I am willing to bet that there are enough no voters from last time round who are feeling the same way that I am.

No, there is no mandate. One can be created by having the SNP run on an independence ticket and winning in the next Scottish elections, as they did previously.

[Deleted]

The majority of scotland voted to stay. Now they are forced to leave due to not being independant.
So they need independancy to stay in the EU.

[Deleted]

They kick a fuss about England
They get a referendum about leaving
They vote in
England has a referendum about EU
We vote out
They kick a fuss about England again

I think they forever going to moan

[Graeham]

Westminster will not agree to any new referendum at this moment, so it seems a bit pointless to ask for one, especially as there is no actual mandate to hold one.

I wouldn't rule it out entirely - it depends who takes over from Cameron, I suppose. I'm all for Scotland getting the chance to leave if they so desire but at the same time it seems silly to do it as a knee jerk reaction when there's a very real risk of other countries voting to leave the EU. No point joining what could very well be a sinking ship.

It also risks complicating things needlessly - will Scotland seek to adopt the Euro? Will it take on financial burdens/refugees? I hope not. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens to see if it's worth staying in Scotland or moving back to England depending on which ends up looking more stable.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

How often can Scotland vote out?

[In Ogres We Trust]

SCOTLAND

What an opportunity to spearhead the unity of a nation and show positive leadership when so many are not, yet Nicola Sturgeon chooses instead to attempt to rally Scotland for a second vote of independence leaving me very suspicious of her true intentions and motives and exposing where her heart lies.

How can you truly want independence if you want to be a part of the EU and not a part of Britain? To me this exposes her as actually an Anglophobe - English hate, and not a true voice for independence at all.

If you truly had the real interests of the nation at heart rather than hating the English, you would realize and accept you are part of a nation that needs unity and strength and you would be calling for it nationwide not just country wide. Because Scotland voted remain, no one in the nation would hold that you were remain against you, unlike counterparts in England or Wales which would have been an opportunity for her to lead Britain.

But she has shown where her heart lies in this, it was never about independence, it was always about separation from Britain.

Scotland voted to remain a part of the UK, in the Scottish referendum, that was the Scottish people's decision when that question was asked to them. The nation voted to leave the EU, when the decision was asked on whether we wanted to be a part of that body or not. That more people in Scotland preferred to remain in the EU does not mean they would prefer to be apart from Britain, Scotland did vote to remain a part of the United Kingdom, what this move by the SNP shows is that Nicola Sturgeon and her party don't want England. So because London, or Northern Ireland or Manchester or Cambridge all voted to stay in they must also ask for independence? That's the flawed logic, coming from a Leader! It's either incompetent or simply just shows where her heart truly lies, Union independence, and makes this a shameful ploy to use the confusion in the wake of Brexit exposing her has cold, manipulative and not truly in the best interest of her people.

That is sooo divisive, at a time the nation needs to come together. Shame on you Nicola, you were hiding your hatred behind rhetoric of "the country's best interest" but you have exposed yourself and shown your hand. I don't trust her at all. And she is doing Britain and Scotland a diservice.

Nicola Sturgeon has played her hand far too soon. And taken the shock and confusion of half of the nation to mean this her chance, and in such she has blundered horribly.

She should be arrested (along with the entirety of the SNP), put on trial for treason, and then publicly executed via hanging. However, you know... that would be too divisive!

[Deleted]

I wouldn't rule it out entirely - it depends who takes over from Cameron, I suppose. I'm all for Scotland getting the chance to leave if they so desire but at the same time it seems silly to do it as a knee jerk reaction when there's a very real risk of other countries voting to leave the EU. No point joining what could very well be a sinking ship.

It also risks complicating things needlessly - will Scotland seek to adopt the Euro? Will it take on financial burdens/refugees? I hope not.

If a second referendum about Scottish independence did occur and they voted to remain in the UK will they finally STFU?