Who pays on a date?

[Spectral]

Do you ever sit down and wonder why there is so much mental illness in our society?

There was less mental illness in yesteryear's world of more traditional gender roles. I don't know whether there's much in the way of causation there, but if there is, it doesn't seem to support your position much here. Men that have wives and children don't seem near as likely to kill themselves as the directionless man-children of the present year. Research on the matter finds that increased work-force participation has decreased female happiness (NBER source).

Or are you too busy i dunno, killing animals/sports/fast cars?
Gross.

Ew, yuck, people getting their own food and enjoying fitness and competition! Icky!

Could you be any more stereotypically effete?

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Well, I don't count just "looking" on quite the same level. I mean, people "look" at me all the time when I go out, too. Often women who likely suspect that I can't notice them or something. (Although I'm never sure if they're looking for a "good" reason, or because, "Ew, a creepy male")

Yeah, I'm not likely to count looking either. I run without a shirt and get looks - this has never upset me!

It's always interesting to me that a lot of fiction aimed specifically at women revolves around the same fantasies of, "Oh god all the men are just inexplicably swarming over me what do I do?!" that I see complained about in "feminist" blogs.

I confess that I'm amused when these fantasies come from people that have pictures that make it plain that it's pure fantasy. I guess not getting attention when you expect it probably is pretty sad.

[Baronthefirst]

It depends. On a blind date the guy should offer to pay. If you happen to be friends and seeing were things could go then you should split it. If you are out on a date and the man or women eats like a cow. He/She should pay and not expect the other to.

[Deleted]

The person who invited or each pays what they consumed.

Yup. No need to make it unnecessarily complicated.

If I went on a (first) date with someone - even if it was a guy - I wouldn't expect or even want them to pay.

[Manaleaf]

That part about making an effort was really what I took away from this video.

[Dragoncurry]

If you're in a position to go on any outing with any group of people, you should be prepared to pay the entire bill. The next action is:

- If your friends give a shit about you, they will pay their own portion and insist on it. If someone can't pay, then they may either be having financial issues, or are taking advantage of you. If they repeat this process, then you have good notes and can make an informed decision of whether that person is your friend or not.
- If the woman you love is with you, then your money and hers are tied in a dream that you both share. Financially, the two of you are an institution that you both contribute to, so there's no real question here. If you decided to keep a part of your money separate, then not asking her to pay just conveys that you're confident enough in your part to cover. Expecting her to pay conveys that you don't see the two of you as a united entity, and that she should be responsible for her own segment.
- If a woman you don't love is with you, then you paying suggests that you're interested in taking responsibility for her share and are willing to do so in other segments of life. Expecting her to pay suggests that, in your head, you're not interested yet in making that jump.

There's no such things as gender issues when it comes to pay. Paying for a date is 100% about financial security, and taking on additional responsibility and then making a decision that you stand by. It's not that expecting a woman to pay means that you're respecting her decision to be financially independent. She should not be obligated to you because you paid. That's a personal decision you made. If she makes it about herself, and her capability to do so when it has nothing to do with that, then that should show you that there's a disconnect in understanding.

That's what I think.

[THE Bigzoman]

There was less mental illness in yesteryear's world of more traditional gender roles. I don't know whether there's much in the way of causation there, but if there is, it doesn't seem to support your position much here. Men that have wives and children don't seem near as likely to kill themselves as the directionless man-children of the present year. Research on the matter finds that increased work-force participation has decreased female happiness (NBER source).

Ew, yuck, people getting their own food and enjoying fitness and competition! Icky!

Could you be any more stereotypically effete?

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Yeah, I'm not likely to count looking either. I run without a shirt and get looks - this has never upset me!

I confess that I'm amused when these fantasies come from people that have pictures that make it plain that it's pure fantasy. I guess not getting attention when you expect it probably is pretty sad.

To expand off of this, i'm more amused by the ones that equate putting out for the entire team as getting a lot of positive attention. Some (especially the uglier ones) will smash the entire team and think it gives her status in said team. The reality is that all the guys are just laughing at her and figuring out how they can get the weak link some play too.

[dextersmith]

I'd gladly take the ability to simply be the one who gets to choose while not putting any skin into the game so to speak.

That's not so idealistic if you only have gross to select from. I very much prefer to be the pursuer, the cost usually isn't much anyway unless she bugs you for jewellery. In the case of a ring, the financial cost may be less hefty a price than the expectations it brings.

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I'd love to meet this hypothetical female that I hear about so often from the internet-feminist crowd. The one that can't step foot out of her house without an infinite number of "creepy men" spontaneously forming out of the aether for the sole purpose of fawning over her.

They do exist. I used to have a childhood friend who grew up to be fat, unattractive, bitter, creepy, weird, and eccentric. She refused to make a fb account for fear of menzes around the world pursuing her relentlessly for all times.

[Spectral]

There was not "less mental illness" there was no concept of it. People were filled with demons or the such. And in the early days of psychology not many mental illnesses were recognised.

It's definitely a factor in a lot of peoples depression/anxiety etc.

There is a reason im effeminate.... You're trying to use my presumed gender to invalidate my points. Why? If you can use gender in this way maybe it's not a totally good thing? Basically all im getting is that you're someone who has little to no consideration for people that don't have something to offer you. I mean I get that compassion isn't manly.

But like don't try pretend that you can talk about how other people feel when you don't try to understand it lol.

As mentioned earlier, your belief that you have deep insights into other people's motivations does make me wonder what your experiences are that make you believe you have these insights.

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To expand off of this, i'm more amused by the ones that equate putting out for the entire team as getting a lot of positive attention. Some (especially the uglier ones) will smash the entire team and think it gives her status in said team. The reality is that all the guys are just laughing at her and figuring out how they can get the weak link some play too.

All this does is prove how evil gender roles. They promote slut shaming! The horrors

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Meanwhile, I guess the females in the equation are just kinda along for the ride, and we're just counting on the idea that shoveling enough of this stuff at her will make her fall in love or something, even though she's had no obligation at all to actually show interest before the fact?

Lmao so true.. why do some people make it sound like the men should be doing everything while the women... are just there? That doesn't sound like a relationship at all.

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I'd love to meet this hypothetical female that I hear about so often from the internet-feminist crowd. The one that can't step foot out of her house without an infinite number of "creepy men" spontaneously forming out of the aether for the sole purpose of fawning over her.

I think this does happen... but not to the degree its exaggerated.. and I don't think its as bad as people state.

[Hana Song]

I'd love to meet this hypothetical female that I hear about so often from the internet-feminist crowd. The one that can't step foot out of her house without an infinite number of "creepy men" spontaneously forming out of the aether for the sole purpose of fawning over her.

It happens enough to get annoying quickly

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

It happens enough to get annoying quickly

Have you been on the other side of the fence though?

[Hana Song]

Have you been on the other side of the fence though?

What do you mean with other side of the fence?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

What do you mean with other side of the fence?

The pursuer, instead of the pursued.

[May90]

The pursuer, instead of the pursued.

These two are not the only possibilities.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

These two are not the only possibilities.

I don't mean to sound obtuse, but I think that all possibilities would fall under the umbrella of one or the other. Especially when it comes to the start of a relationship. Especially in the terms and context of this thread. (Who pays on a first date)

[May90]

I don't mean to sound obtuse, but I think that all possibilities would fall under the umbrella of one or the other. Especially when it comes to the start of a relationship. Especially in the terms and context of this thread. (Who pays on a first date)

A date can be based on mutual interest. People can be equally interested in each other, without the one pursuing and the other pursued.

[Hana Song]

The pursuer, instead of the pursued.

No but what does that have to do with it being annoying when you get people hitting on you pretty often?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

No but what does that have to do with it being annoying when you get people hitting on you pretty often?

A lot, actually.

[Hana Song]

A lot, actually.

Like what?

[THE Bigzoman]

As mentioned earlier, your belief that you have deep insights into other people's motivations does make me wonder what your experiences are that make you believe you have these insights.

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All this does is prove how evil gender roles. They promote slut shaming! The horrors

It's more of an economics thing.

If something is readily available and everyone has it (in this case pussy) it's going to devalue.