BREXIT - leave or remain?

[ranzino]

The veto rights will be stripped off the UK. Leavers are not choosers.

No, UK is a member until the very end. And unless UK invokes Art. 50, rest of EU cannot change the article without consent of the UK. EU cannot dictate a national referendum is valid and is binding.

[Jessicka]

Yet when a criminal we tried to deport takes his/her case to the European courts they could have the final say, effectively overruling us. The amount of times I've read we couldn't deport criminals because of their human rights.. Laughable! Especially if they were convicted of murder.

You can probably count those cases on the fingers of one hand. The only instances I recall are those where the deportation is effectively a death sentence. We don't do the death penalty in this country. In more recent cases, assurances were obtained from the government to whom we were deporting them which were accepted by the European Court, and the deportation went ahead.

[klogaroth]

Even within the UK the referendum was an advisory one.

Of course the government will look beyond stupid if they ignore it, but it's not binding.

[Deleted]

Just by ctrl+f the legal basis there a over 90 mentions of "notif" in http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...326/01&from=DE .
But I have to admit I have yet to find what actually constitutes a notification, even though it is mentioned a lot when it comes interaction within the EC. I hope we didn't draft this, because that is fairly sloppy imho, the BGB seems to be written better .

as i said.
It's almost like this wasn't meant to be used

[Shadowferal]

No, UK is a member until the very end. And unless UK invokes Art. 50, rest of EU cannot change the article without consent of the UK. EU cannot dictate a national referendum is valid and is binding.

Are you trying to say a sovereign nation can't up and quit?

[Afrospinach]

How undemocratic.

Just a point of fact, democracy does not explicitly state one person one vote but rather something more to the effect that the general populace has an effect on the outcome.

[Cosmic Janitor]

You can probably count those cases on the fingers of one hand. The only instances I recall are those where the deportation is effectively a death sentence. We don't do the death penalty in this country. In more recent cases, assurances were obtained from the government to whom we were deporting them which were accepted by the European Court, and the deportation went ahead.

To add to that: The UK (and any other member) willingly signed the "Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union" when they entered. It's a good read, some people here might learn something from reading it, especially Article 1 and 2. .

[Theodarzna]

Even within the UK the referendum was an advisory one.

Of course the government will look beyond stupid if they ignore it, but it's not binding.

The Conservative Party would be committing suicide if they ignore it. I am unsure if they would do it. I mean Cameron put up the referendum simply to save his position. I am uncertain they are in a self-sacrificing mood right now.

[PC2]

Again I'll repeat.

We haven't triggered article 50 yet. Until such time as we do we are full EU members.

It will go through, you just have to be patient.

[Deleted]

Are you trying to say a sovereign nation can't up and quit?

No he is saying that when your wife tell's you she is leaving and even has the suitcase on the bed you can't just throw her out the window.

[Deleted]

The Conservatives need 4 months to get their shit straight. I agree with the EU leaders tbh, fuck what Cameron wants. He put his party before the country with this referendum, fuck giving him another chance to do the same.

But honestly, 4 months to do what?

The PM isn't that important for negotiations. Those will be done by experts that are already in place. They can actually start the negtiations. Those won't start anyways before the UK calls for Act 50.

There's no real chance for a change in mind aside of ignoring the vote, something i believe would be political suicide. So he could just start it. Honestly, investors are going to treat the UK anyways as if they aren't in the EU and the earlier they are out, they can have some results. There will be a hard period anyways. But it will be longer if the government just tries to delay the process.

[Deleted]

I'm ashamed to be British. I don't class myself as a Brit anymore, I'm EUROPEAN. I hope that europeans won't meet me on my travels and be like disgusting a Brit accent.

Dumbest fucking decision ever. Old, ignorant, nationalist pigs in my opinion that voted Leave. OR just plain stupid and had no idea what they were voting for.

Broken Kingdom.

[Deleted]

A second ref is not "the will of the people" too ? Nobody is entitled to correct his stance on importatnt matters ? Hmmm......

absent a material change in the question, No its not acceptable.

[Cosmic Janitor]

as i said.
It's almost like this wasn't meant to be used

Again you argue something that has no bearing. The phrase notification is used over 90 times throughout the document. Notifying someone is a standard procedure which is not limited to members leaving.

[Jessicka]

But honestly, 4 months to do what?

The PM isn't that important for negotiations. Those will be done by experts that are already in place. They can actually start the negtiations. Those won't start anyways before the UK calls for Act 50.

There's no real chance for a change in mind aside of ignoring the vote, something i believe would be political suicide. So he could just start it. Honestly, investors are going to treat the UK anyways as if they aren't in the EU and the earlier they are out, they can have some results. There will be a hard period anyways. But it will be longer if the government just tries to delay the process.

We need a PM to set the vision, explain the goals, and give us targets. Right now the Leave camp have already dropped basically all their pledges for what they said they were going to do. No money for the NHS, no changes to immigration, and they want to remain in the EEA. So we need to ask what the fuck did we leave for?

[klogaroth]

It will go through, you just have to be patient.

Oh I believe it'll go through, but until it does nobody can go changing anything about the leaving process.

Then once we're in the leaving process unless there's some very funky stuff going on it will follow the regulations that were in place when the process began.

All this talk in this thread of other nations changing the leaving process whilst it's going on just isn't how these things work.

What they can do is send armies of lawyers to search every dotted i and crossed t of the existing regulations to look for anywhere they can find an advantage or loophole. That could just end up being a colossal waste of time though. One would hope that the UK government had fully inspected the leaving process for anything like that prior to even suggesting a referendum.

[Deleted]

Would love for all EU countries to become independent nations again, instead of vassal states of Brussels, which despite all efforts to make us believe otherwise, we -have- become.

You are deluded.
Literally nothing you said was remotely correct.

[Deleted]

The Conservative Party would be committing suicide if they ignore it. I am unsure if they would do it. I mean Cameron put up the referendum simply to save his position. I am uncertain they are in a self-sacrificing mood right now.

Both ways could have the same result. In one, they are blamed for ignoring the vote. In the other one, they will be blamed for leaving EU and all the negative effects without real improvements.

It's been discussed a lot. If they want back into the EU single market, they'd have worse conditions than they have now - for sure. Everything else is a lie. Only 1 EU member has to decline the british conditions. It is even possible that one EU member could veto their access completely. UK would need to persuade ALL 27 members to their conditions.

Both ways could be suicidal. But at least: if they follow the vote they can still blame the leave voters. xD Doesn't sound very clever though if you want to win an election.

[Deleted]

Yet when a criminal we tried to deport takes his/her case to the European courts they could have the final say, effectively overruling us. The amount of times I've read we couldn't deport criminals because of their human rights.. Laughable! Especially if they were convicted of murder.

The ECHR - Is not a fucking part of the EU.

[PC2]

I'm ashamed to be British. I don't class myself as a Brit anymore, I'm EUROPEAN. I hope that europeans won't meet me on my travels and be like disgusting a Brit accent.

Dumbest fucking decision ever. Old, ignorant, nationalist pigs in my opinion that voted Leave. OR just plain stupid and had no idea what they were voting for.

Broken Kingdom.

When are you moving to the Europe mainland?