[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Deleted]

Pop Nem on your target
Pop FoTI
Pool 120
Pop CBlades, spam Chaos Strike
When CBlades ends, pool to 120
Pop Meta, pop Cblades again, spam Chaos Strike
Continue with Dbite, Fblade, and CS. Use EB / BD only if it's 4+ targets. Refresh Nem when it wears off if ST, if same-type mob for an add fight put Nem on that new mob to have the buff + the debuff active at the same time

I might be wrong but wouldn't it be better to use Meta right after the first CB and then use it again a second time ?

[Vanyali]

I might be wrong but wouldn't it be better to use Meta right after the first CB and then use it again a second time ?

You want to be using it when you're full Fury because CS benefits more from it than Dbite. The pooling period is fairly minor (5-10s).

[Otora]

You want to be using it when you're full Fury because CS benefits more from it than Dbite. The pooling period is fairly minor (5-10s).

Worth more than 2 sets of CB annihilations? (Even though annihilation is still bugged)

[Deleted]

Mmh i'll do some testing later today but i feel like 24 sec of CB with Annihilation is more efficient than 12sec CS + 12sec Annihilation even with the pooling period between the consecutive CB.

(Even though annihilation is still bugged)

Didn't know about that bug, what is it exactly ?

[Vanyali]

Worth more than 2 sets of CB annihilations? (Even though annihilation is still bugged)

Oh, you mean like that. Yeah, that'd probably be a lot more efficient; i'll go edit. I don't play Cblades that much and my brain doesn't want to think around a headache still >_<

[Otora]

Didn't know about that bug, what is it exactly ?

It's only refunding 20 fury rather than its "cost" as it reads

[Qlix]

It's only refunding 20 fury rather than its "cost" as it reads

Unless Annihilation didnt* get rolled into the CS refund nerf as well it SHOULD only be refunding 20 fury. Why would they nerf CS and not Annihilation? That wouldnt make sense at all.

but i do see the tooltip is completely different as far as mechanics are concerned so maybe they were supposed to be tuned separately?

[BurningBurns]

Momentum:

Fel Rush in
Pool to 120 (assuming UF)
Throw FoTI at some point
VR into EyeBeam
FR back (assuming BF if EB is buffed again; if not, you can Fblade back in, then refresh Momentum mid-Demonic if you feel lucky. If not, just accept 2s of waste)
Annihilation until it's over
Pool to 120
FR out
Meta in
Keep up Momentum, Pop blur to activate Demon Speed for 2x more FR, when Meta runs low save VR for the out of Meta EB and repeat.

Question. How are you using FR after that initial burst? I know if it's a big enough boss you would just FR to the other side, what about a smaller boss/mob? And do you only VR with FB?

[Otora]

Unless Annihilation didnt* get rolled into the CS refund nerf as well it SHOULD only be refunding 20 fury. Why would they nerf CS and not Annihilation? That wouldnt make sense at all.

but i do see the tooltip is completely different as far as mechanics are concerned so maybe they were supposed to be tuned separately?

CS is supposed to refund 20 Fury on Crit but Annihilation says it has a 30% chance for a refund of the cost. So its either horribly worded or bugged.

[Vanyali]

Question. How are you using FR after that initial burst? I know if it's a big enough boss you would just FR to the other side, what about a smaller boss/mob? And do you only VR with FB?

Smaller boss / mob you find terrain you can use or make sure you have FBlade up. VR alternates between FBlade and EB for what you're pairing it with.

[Forde]

Query- As I mentioned on the last page, I've been messing around with Momentum paired with Demon Reborn and Chaos Blades, so far from some mythic+ dungeons, it seems to be performing strongly.

The burst potential is extremely strong, but I'm curious if the 5% more damage gained on momentum which can be held consistently will overtake the 15% consistent benefit of Nemesis.

What are your guys' thoughts about it? Is maintaining momentum while CB is up the biggest detractor? Or will the sustained damage that Momentum provides outweigh it?

[Noxit]

I noticed on beta that if u use Chaos cleave and if u crit 2 targets with CS u'll get back 40 fury.

[Deleted]

The burst potential is extremely strong, but I'm curious if the 5% more damage gained on momentum which can be held consistently will overtake the 15% consistent benefit of Nemesis.

Actually Momentum provides 20% damage buff.

Edit : My bad misreading.

[Dopefreshx]

Actually Momentum provides 20% damage buff.

I think that's what they're saying

[Thrillhouse918]

So is there really no place or reason to use Demonic? Is it that far behind the other 2 builds?

[Deleted]

so you want to be fury capped before starting meta and not during BL/Hero

[Factor]

So is there really no place or reason to use Demonic? Is it that far behind the other 2 builds?

The momentum build uses Demonic

[AngryCoco]

Well I'm back to keeping up with the thread now. I'm sad eye beam is so meh it's even cancelled just to make meta last longer!

[Mefistophelis]

I thought I'd give a look into relics, since they will be an integral part of our dps. wowhead has a nice list of them and if you actually choose Havoc it tells you what trait it boosts, which is nice. So here's a nice list for discussion, divided into slot and tier. We're kinda stuck with dungeons for some weeks and then Nightmare for some months, so we'll have to deal with it.

Shadow Relic:

1)Pre-raid content

Soul Fibril (Enchanting craft) +31 ilvl, +1 Chaos Vision
Decaying Dragonfang (world boss drop) +46 ilvl, +1 Critical Chaos
Ink of the Leviathan (Suramar Quest Reward) +35 ilvl, +1 Demon Rage
Shade of the Vault (no source on wowhead) +35 ilvl, +1 Unleashed Demons

All the relics below are dungeon drops which is +35 ilvl but I don't know how they would scale in mythic and such
Tendril of Darkness +1 Illidari Knowledge
Fealty of Nerub +1 Chaos Vision
Ivanyr's Hunger +1 Demon Rage
Serpentrix's Guile +1 Overwhelming Power
Fragment of Loathing +1 Contained Fury
Curdled Soul Essence +1 Deceiver's Fury
Screams of the Unworthy +1 Critical Chaos
Xavius' Mad Whispers +1 Sharpened Glaives

2)Emerald Nightmare (on wowhead they are all at +43 ilvl, presumably on normal)
Nightmarish Elm Branch +1 Demon Rage
Nightmare Engulfed Jewel +1 Sharpened Glaives
Despoiled Dragonscale +1 Critical Chaos

3)The Nighthold (they appear to give +51 ilvl, presumably on normal)
Precipice of Eternity +1 Contained Fury
Breath of Dusk +1 Unleashed Demons
Warchief's Shattered Tusk +1 Chaos Vision (Gul'dan drop)


Fel Relic:

1)Pre-raid content

The Felic (Engineering craft) +31 ilvl, +1 Chaos Vision
Fel-Infused Kelp (Suramar Quest Reward) +35 ilvl, +1 Demon Rage
Intact Infernal Palm (unknown source) +37 ilvl, +1 Contained Fury
Imp-Eye Diamond (World Boss) +46 ilvl, +1 Chaos Vision

Dungeon Relics below, all are +35 ilvl.
Metamorphosis Spark +1 Contained Fury (this relic's name would make someone think it would give Unleashed Demons but no...)
Felsworn Covenant +1 Demon Rage
Brand of Tyranny +1 Sharpened Glaives
Sealed Fel Fissure +1 Critical Chaos
Noxious Entrails +1 Chaos Vision
Mo'arg Eyepatch +1 Overwhelming Power
Ragnarok Ember +1 Unleashed Demons

2)Emerald Nightmare (+43 ilvl)
Azsharan Councillor's Clasp +1 Overwhelming Power
Fel-Bloated Venom Sac +1 Demon Rage

3)Nighthold (+51 ilvl)
Writ of Subjugation +1 Critical Chaos
Felfire Pitch +1 Sharpened Glaives
Felstained Jawbone Fragments +1 Contained Fury

[Zeeket]

I'm guessing it would be safe to say, baring ilvl increase and such, the contained fury and/or unleashed demon relics would be the best to farm for?

so BiS would be 2x Felstained Jawbone Fragments and a Breath of Dusk?

And a final question, I havn't actually seen anything about ilvl, how important is ilvl on the glaives for DH? Is more max fury or lower meta CD more important than a higher ilvl?