1. #9261
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by bufferunderrun View Post
    the main problem is that local politicians use the EU as scapegoat for their failures and shortcoming, this is why we need to reform eu and give it an indipendent, directly voted, gov and curb down the power of local politicians.
    The real problem IMO is that there's no real european government. Everything (!) important is decided by the national governments leaders. They need to reform the EU. Bureaucracy is out of control for sure. But national interests are too often more important than doing the right thing (for EU/Europe).

    But in its current state, there's no way the leaders will give up more power to EU. And that way it can't act efficiently.

  2. #9262
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffyman View Post
    I'm sure there was a lot of younger people voting out too. There's plenty of them which aren't utter morons.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Do you have any information on how these funds are spent or do they go into slush funds never to be seen by the ordinary people.
    just worth mentioning that the one who decide were the founds are spent is not the EU but the local gov, just to make it clear before some clown tell that eu is just building cathedrals into the desert, so if the peoples aren't happy on how the money is spent they better pull out their head from the sand and vote for better peoples.

    Anyway it seem that as predicted in or out will be a huge point of the next political election:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...neral-election
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  3. #9263
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffyman View Post
    I'm sure there was a lot of younger people voting out too. There's plenty of them which aren't utter morons.

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    Do you have any information on how these funds are spent or do they go into slush funds never to be seen by the ordinary people.
    E.g. for wales:

    Driving business, research, innovation and renewable energy

    £370m of EU funds invested, which includes:
    Business Wales and Social Business Wales schemes
    Innovation and Enterprise Campus at Aberystwyth University
    SMART schemes
    Menai Science Park (M-SParc) in Anglesey
    CUBRIC II (Cardiff University Brain Research Imaging Centre)
    Advanced Engineering and Materials Research Institute (AEMRI) in Port Talbot
    Wales Business Fund
    Deep Green in Anglesey and WaveSub in Pembrokeshire
    Attractor Destinations
    Superfast Broadband Business Exploitation


    Supporting people into work and raising skills

    £245m of EU funds invested, which includes:

    REACT III
    Active Inclusion
    Communities 4 Work
    Bridges into Work 2 in South East Wales
    Parents Childcare and Employment
    Healthy Working Wales
    Workways+ in South West Wales
    Apprenticeships
    Welsh Financial Services Graduate Programme
    Agile Nation 2
    Working Skills for Adults in South East Wales
    Growing Workforces through Learning and Development (Gwlad) in South West Wales
    Materials and Manufacturing Education Training and Learning (METaL 2)
    KESS II (Knowledge Economy Skills Scholarships)
    Skills for Industry II
    Upskilling@work
    ION Leadership (Leading Business Growth)


    Supporting young people

    £95m of EU funds invested, which includes:

    Jobs Growth Wales
    Traineeships
    STEM Cymru
    Communities4Work under 25s
    Progress for Success
    TRAC 11-24 in North Wales
    Inspire 2 Achieve in South East Wales


    The EU will never give you diectly money. They will invest the money into projects they believe will help people. IT could be the new train station, it could be education, could be renovation of streets and bridges and so on. You might have used it without even knowing it was mostly funded by EU.

    That's the main problem: the EU don't pay you money so you can buy your new smartphone. They invest into infrastructure and so on to keep firms in your area, attract investments and so on.

    And a lot of money goes into support of farmers. That leads to cheaper food. Of course noone tells you that food could cost more money without EU money. You just take that for granted.
    Last edited by mmoc4ec7d51a68; 2016-06-26 at 07:53 AM.

  4. #9264
    Warchief Bollocks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    E.g. for wales:

    Driving business, research, innovation and renewable energy

    £370m of EU funds invested, which includes:
    Business Wales and Social Business Wales schemes
    Innovation and Enterprise Campus at Aberystwyth University
    SMART schemes
    Menai Science Park (M-SParc) in Anglesey
    CUBRIC II (Cardiff University Brain Research Imaging Centre)
    Advanced Engineering and Materials Research Institute (AEMRI) in Port Talbot
    Wales Business Fund
    Deep Green in Anglesey and WaveSub in Pembrokeshire
    Attractor Destinations
    Superfast Broadband Business Exploitation


    Supporting people into work and raising skills

    £245m of EU funds invested, which includes:

    REACT III
    Active Inclusion
    Communities 4 Work
    Bridges into Work 2 in South East Wales
    Parents Childcare and Employment
    Healthy Working Wales
    Workways+ in South West Wales
    Apprenticeships
    Welsh Financial Services Graduate Programme
    Agile Nation 2
    Working Skills for Adults in South East Wales
    Growing Workforces through Learning and Development (Gwlad) in South West Wales
    Materials and Manufacturing Education Training and Learning (METaL 2)
    KESS II (Knowledge Economy Skills Scholarships)
    Skills for Industry II
    Upskilling@work
    ION Leadership (Leading Business Growth)


    Supporting young people

    £95m of EU funds invested, which includes:

    Jobs Growth Wales
    Traineeships
    STEM Cymru
    Communities4Work under 25s
    Progress for Success
    TRAC 11-24 in North Wales
    Inspire 2 Achieve in South East Wales


    The EU will never give you diectly money. They will invest the money into projects they believe will help people. IT could be the new train station, it could be education, could be renovation of streets and bridges and so on. You might have used it without even knowing it was mostly funded by EU.

    That's the main problem: the EU don't pay you money so you can buy your new smartphone. They invest into infrastructure and so on to keep firms in your area, attract investments and so on.
    Damn we need a system similar to that in Latin America.

  5. #9265
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    That's the main problem: the EU don't pay you money so you can buy your new smartphone. They invest into infrastructure and so on to keep firms in your area, attract investments and so on.
    You know, my old job where I do consulting stuff is part of an EU project regarding new media (television etc) and it's - to put this nicely - full of shit. I'm ashamed that I have to be part of doing something so unproductive just to get paid.

    This will be a ~10M€ million project. I could burn the money on the street and it would do as much good to society. It's essentially just throwing money at people so they'll do SOMETHING instead of loitering at home.
    Last edited by mmoce1e4d9dec7; 2016-06-26 at 07:54 AM.

  6. #9266
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    The real problem IMO is that there's no real european government. Everything (!) important is decided by the national governments leaders. They need to reform the EU. Bureaucracy is out of control for sure. But national interests are too often more important than doing the right thing (for EU/Europe).

    But in its current state, there's no way the leaders will give up more power to EU. And that way it can't act efficiently.
    yea but there are a good number of eu meps (cross parties) that wants to give more power to the eu parliament (the only thing directly voted by us) unfortunately local news often don't publicized their pow and so the average joe isn't well informed of what is going on.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  7. #9267
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    This will be a ~10M€ million project. I could burn the money on the street and it would do as much good to society.
    Then you clearly have no grasp of economics.

    More money in poorer areas means more demand, which in turn attracts businesses and investment. The recovery of Eastern Europe from the Soviet Era is in no small part due to European funding.

    But hey, let's entrust such a momentous decision to people bitching about Poles, or Romanians, or Muslims while eating kebabs and lapping up the horse shit Farage shovels at them.

  8. #9268
    An interesting take on the situation:



    In chess you call this situation putting somebody under "Zugzwang". You have to take your turn, but none of the options are particularly good, and you can see you will be checkmated in under three turns regardless of what you do.

  9. #9269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Then you clearly have no grasp of economics.
    God forbid I actually think about investing the money into something productive and socially useful instead of throwing it on completely useless startups or projects that make no sense for the sake of just throwing money around.

    Let's all start coding mobile games on money from EU, eh?
    Last edited by mmoce1e4d9dec7; 2016-06-26 at 08:03 AM.

  10. #9270
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    An interesting take on the situation:



    In chess you call this situation putting somebody under "Zugzwang". You have to take your turn, but none of the options are particularly good, and you can see you will be checkmated in under three turns regardless of what you do.
    The other amusing factor is that, as someone mentioned previously, the expression of a lot of the pro-Brexit leaders when Europe suggested they should find ways to expedite the process of Brexit rather than drag it out for two years.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    God forbid I actually think about investing the money into something productive and socially useful instead of throwing it on completely useless startups or projects that make no sense.
    I agree, there is no reason why the EU should be sinking money into anywhere outside of London since all that those regions produce is ingracious whiners.

    But in all seriousness, yes there may be some 'useless startups', but the vast majority of EU funding does what it sets out to do. And as mentioned, it's fair to say that Brussels invests considerably more in Northern England and Wales than Westminster does.

  11. #9271
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    You know, my old job where I do consulting stuff is part of an EU project regarding new media (television etc) and it's - to put this nicely - full of shit. I'm ashamed that I have to be part of doing something so unproductive just to get paid.

    This will be a ~10M€ million project. I could burn the money on the street and it would do as much good to society. It's essentially just throwing money at people so they'll do SOMETHING instead of loitering at home.
    I am pretty sure there are projects that are uneffective. But that's part of ANY government. I am sure there are tons of examples where the UK government burnt money in projects. Not to mention all those senseless subventions many governments pay because of strong lobbyism.

    That won't magically change. That's the problem with big countries and centralised governments.

    I mean: Cameron didn't invest at all into this. He could have invested ressources into more efficient spending from money. Where was his critics about this? I am also pretty sure the national government has a lot to say how to allocate EU money.

    Really: i am not an EU fan. I really am not. There is a lot of room for improvement. But that isn't achieved by leaving. And to be honest, Cameron didn't invest a lot into making EU more efficiently. He only focussed on political benefits he could use in the vote. People don't care about better money allocation. They care about immigration and so on.
    Last edited by mmoc4ec7d51a68; 2016-06-26 at 08:11 AM.

  12. #9272
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    In chess you call this situation putting somebody under "Zugzwang". You have to take your turn, but none of the options are particularly good, and you can see you will be checkmated in under three turns regardless of what you do.
    Yes, and more importantly in Zugzwang you wouldn't be checkmated if you didn't have to move yourself.
    And - doesn't look that good in Labour either.

  13. #9273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    But in all seriousness, yes there may be some 'useless startups', but the vast majority of EU funding does what it sets out to do. And as mentioned, it's fair to say that Brussels invests considerably more in Northern England and Wales than Westminster does.
    You seem to have this notion that I'm from the UK - I'm not.

    I'm actually from a country that handled its economy for years better than EU standards required and watched money being thrown around in completely absurd projects whilst larger countries like Greece,Italy, Spain etc. were thrown money at like there was no tomorrow and they spent it on what can only be categorized as corruption or sheer mismanagement.

    Now you guys are acting like there's no problem and billions upon billions of euros being spent on repairing the fucksups by France/Germany and EU in general should just be accepted. How about no fucking way?

  14. #9274
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reklia View Post
    Its not all about where sending them back is effectively a death sentence.



    There's also been cases where they have a wife and children and use that as a reason not to be booted out. This type of abuse of the act wasn't a large number thankfully.

    p.s Here is the page I quote from. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/635...man-Rights-Act

    I can only hope now that we're out of the EU we can improve this Human rights act.
    I don't consider the Express to be a valid source of anything more than right wing conspiracies, it never tells a full story. You shouldn't either, it's well renound it's works of fiction and misinformation. It's the least objective news source in mass publication.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimaryColor View Post
    How is there so many immigrants in London then?
    A lot. But if they're such a problem, why the fuck is London so desperate to stay?

  15. #9275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    like Greece,Italy, Spain etc.
    true for greece and spain, but italy pays more than what it gets

  16. #9276
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    The place I work trades extensively with Europe, is owned by a German company, and has a lot of polish guys and gals on the workforce. Should be interesting.
    Went in last night to learn that we are shutting down the weekend manufacturing of our new £2.5 million machine and cutting a couple of the production staff working hours from 48 to 39 hours because customers have already given notice of their intent to buy from places that will still be in the EU.
    Last edited by Lollis; 2016-06-26 at 08:28 AM.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  17. #9277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    You seem to have this notion that I'm from the UK - I'm not.

    I'm actually from a country that handled its economy for years better than EU standards required and watched money being thrown around in completely absurd projects whilst larger countries like Greece,Italy, Spain etc. were thrown money at like there was no tomorrow and they spent it on what can only be categorized as corruption or sheer mismanagement.

    Now you guys are acting like there's no problem and billions upon billions of euros being spent on repairing the fucksups by France/Germany and EU in general should just be accepted. How about no fucking way?
    That's not true. Even a lot of remainers see the problems. I wanted greece to leave EU too and massively help them with a restart and offer them a fresh start in a few years after they sorted things out. But that would lead too far.

    Austerity wasn't necessary as long as the country with problems paid the price alone. Austerity just means you should spend only money you can afford to spend. What's so wrong about this? I mean everyone here is forced to live in austerity. Or could you just spend money you don't have?

    It's a difficult decision: Italy and Spain going bankrupt would've been catastrophic for Europe as a whole. Not just EU. Also UK, Switzerland and so on.

  18. #9278
    Quote Originally Posted by Miuku View Post
    You seem to have this notion that I'm from the UK - I'm not.

    I'm actually from a country that handled its economy for years better than EU standards required and watched money being thrown around in completely absurd projects whilst larger countries like Greece,Italy, Spain etc. were thrown money at like there was no tomorrow and they spent it on what can only be categorized as corruption or sheer mismanagement.

    Now you guys are acting like there's no problem and billions upon billions of euros being spent on repairing the fucksups by France/Germany and EU in general should just be accepted. How about no fucking way?
    you are misinformed my friend at last about Italy there is a huge amount of money that EU invest in a large number of projects and subsiding agriculture if anything the eu money is by far spent better than italy own money because those projects are controlled and often supervised directly by EU so there is a very slight chance of it being misused or drained up by corruption.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  19. #9279
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    With the EU sure, who cares about a stagnating continent that leeched 500million euro a week when the rest of the dynamic globe awaits for free. The UK can take as looooonnnnnnnng or short a time as it likes with the EU if in its interest.
    Holy shit. This post makes absolutely no sense. You can't wait to leave because you want to move on, but you want to stay to drag it out?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by CrowleyXIV View Post
    But the people who voted remain were right. So a new referendum makes sense.
    It makes sense on the premise that the Leave campaigners have abandoned all the pledges they'd made as reasons to leave.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gangresnake View Post
    The country you're looking for is Switzerland.
    Borders. Protectionnism and prevalence of Democracy. And they're doing rather fine.

    Just shouting "North-korea" anytime someone suggest any limitation to freedom of movement/capitals is just a low-level strawman.
    Switzerland is in Schengen, no borders.

  20. #9280
    Quote Originally Posted by Lollis View Post
    Went in today to learn that we are shutting down the weekend manufacturing of our new £2.5 million machine and cutting a couple of the production staff working hours from 48 to 39 hours because customers have already given notice of their intent to buy from places that will still be in the EU.
    I guess I better advice our purchasing department to stock FTDI chips, I don't want to make a redesign for the shitty USB features and rewrite the drivers :/.

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