BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Deleted]

A lot. But if they're such a problem, why the fuck is London so desperate to stay?

To be honest: London is the only attractive city in England. It has some great flair. The rest is - meh. And EU membership was very important for Europe with all those companies making London their head of the EU branches. If you exclude London - what is left?

Rank Region national output pp
1 London £ 27.445
2 South East England £ 18.564
3 Schottland £ 16.284
4 East of England £ 15.976
5 South West England £ 15.789
6 West Midlands £ 15.152
7 East Midlands £ 14.994
8 North West England £ 14.953
9 Yorkshire and the Humber £ 14.953
10 Nordirland £ 13.430
11 North East England £ 13.184
12 Wales £ 13.084

Actually. Without London the UK is one of the poorer countries in Europe. And their strength is based on very close ties to EU.

Just a very intersting graphics showing how welfare is distributed among europe:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...0%29_RYB15.png

England doesn't look that good. Actually it is more probable that after Brexit, London will be closer to the rest of the country and not the other way around.

[Deleted]

To be honest: London is the only attractive city in England. It has some great flair. The rest is - meh. And EU membership was very important for Europe with all those companies making London their head of the EU branches. If you exclude London - what is left?

Rank Region national output pp
1 London £ 27.445
2 South East England £ 18.564
3 Schottland £ 16.284
4 East of England £ 15.976
5 South West England £ 15.789
6 West Midlands £ 15.152
7 East Midlands £ 14.994
8 North West England £ 14.953
9 Yorkshire and the Humber £ 14.953
10 Nordirland £ 13.430
11 North East England £ 13.184
12 Wales £ 13.084

Actually. Without London the UK is one of the poorer countries in Europe. And their strength is based on very close ties to EU.

That is due to the financial district which artificially inflates the value of the pound while taking heavy subsidy from the rest of the country.
Without that the rest of the country would be competitive with most of europe.

People joking about London seceding should be careful: many of us on the outside would like to see it actually happen.

[Deleted]

And should it suit the UK, that supposed notification could be dragged through the European Courts one last time by the UK delaying it for years if necessary.

The UK will notify when it chooses.

Well once Art 50 is started, it cannot be stopped by the judiciary - You can appeal its application, but you require an injunction to stop it going forward.
Just like every brexiter, you vastly overestimate the UK position.

[Deleted]

Holy shit. This post makes absolutely no sense. You can't wait to leave because you want to move on, but you want to stay to drag it out?

These people aren't big on logic or common sense.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Yes, and more importantly in Zugzwang you wouldn't be checkmated if you didn't have to move yourself.
And - doesn't look that good in Labour either.

Yeah, Gove, Farage and Johnson have dug themselves into a hole, and they are realizing now that the ladder they brought with them might not be long enough.

[Floopa]

Welp, it's begun has it? I'm safely in Norway after my flights I didn't check in yesterday due to falling asleep, I see the proverbial shit has hit the fan according to the news and what I have read here and honestly, Are we really surprised?

how has shit hit the fan?

[Deleted]

Austerity wasn't necessary as long as the country with problems paid the price alone. Austerity just means you should spend only money you can afford to spend. What's so wrong about this? I mean everyone here is forced to live in austerity. Or could you just spend money you don't have?

That was what you were supposed to think austerity meant.

In practice what actually happened was vast amounts were printed (making everyone else's money worth less) and given to bankers. Essential services to the poor and desperate were cut. The financial discipline was entirely one-sided.

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how has shit hit the fan?

You people are really clueless.

[Bollocks]

Welp, it's begun has it? I'm safely in Norway after my flights I didn't check in yesterday due to falling asleep, I see the proverbial shit has hit the fan according to the news and what I have read here and honestly, Are we really surprised?

Well I have more money than I used to have before this whole thing happened. So I'm happy with this situation

[Jessicka]

To be honest: London is the only attractive city in England. It has some great flair. The rest is - meh. And EU membership was very important for Europe with all those companies making London their head of the EU branches. If you exclude London - what is left?

Rank Region national output pp
1 London £ 27.445
2 South East England £ 18.564
3 Schottland £ 16.284
4 East of England £ 15.976
5 South West England £ 15.789
6 West Midlands £ 15.152
7 East Midlands £ 14.994
8 North West England £ 14.953
9 Yorkshire and the Humber £ 14.953
10 Nordirland £ 13.430
11 North East England £ 13.184
12 Wales £ 13.084

Actually. Without London the UK is one of the poorer countries in Europe. And their strength is based on very close ties to EU.

Just a very intersting graphics showing how welfare is distributed among europe:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...0%29_RYB15.png

England doesn't look that good. Actually it is more probable that after Brexit, London will be closer to the rest of the country and not the other way around.

Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, also voted Remain. The big University cities, again with high migration. These places are I suppose 'used to it' in many ways, and therefore less likely to see it as a problem. Meanwhile elsewhere in places unused to it, it's easier to sell as a problem.

[Deleted]

That is due to the financial district which artificially inflates the value of the pound while taking heavy subsidy from the rest of the country.
Without that the rest of the country would be competitive with most of europe.

People joking about London seceding should be careful: many of us on the outside would like to see it actually happen.

That's an interesting argument. You're not wrong. But why did that happen?

Because the british government totally fixated on the financial markets, away from the exports. That's not the fault of the EU. That was a decision made decades ago. The german government focussed on exports and producing goods. For now this lead to welfare being better distributed throughout the country. The reunion was an external factor. Western germany would've been as rich as switzerland or northern europe without the reunion.

I'm not that sure that the UK chose the wrong way. There were enermous profits in London. I think they didn't redistribute welfare throughout the WHOLE country. But that was a decision by their own government.

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That was what you were supposed to think austerity meant.

In practice what actually happened was vast amounts were printed (making everyone else's money worth less) and given to bankers. Essential services to the poor and desperate were cut. The financial discipline was entirely one-sided.

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You people are really clueless.

So what's the alternative?

Where's the additional money supposed to come from? In fact they just want the rich countries to take new credits to give money to the poorer countries.

[Jessicka]

That's an interesting argument. You're not wrong. But why did that happen?

Because the british government totally fixated on the financial markets, away from the exports. That's not the fault of the EU. That was a decision made centuries ago. The german government focussed on exports and producing goods. For now this lead to welfare being better distributed throughout the country. The reunion was an external factor. Western germany would've been as rich as switzerland or northern europe without the reunion.

I'm not that sure that the UK chose the wrong way. There were enermous profits in London. I think they didn't redistribute welfare throughout the WHOLE country. But that was a decision by their own government.

It wasn't a decision made centuries ago, it's one that was made in the 80s by Thatcher's government, and it underlies why a lot of people voted as they did.

Those 'Labour heartlands' were massively shafted by her, and they've not seen central government investment since. That's where the protest against the establishment comes from.

[Deleted]

So what's the alternative?

Where's the additional money supposed to come from?

The banks should have gone to the wall like any other failing business.

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It wasn't a decision made centuries ago, it's one that was made in the 80s by Thatcher's government, and it underlies why a lot of people voted as they did.

Yeah, manufacturing was quite strong till the 80's.

[Deleted]

It wasn't a decision made centuries ago, it's one that was made in the 80s by Thatcher's government, and it underlies why a lot of people voted as they did.

Those 'Labour heartlands' were massively shafted by her, and they've not seen central government investment since. That's where the protest against the establishment comes from.

Of course i meant decades ago.

Yeah i understand the problem. But that's not an EU problem. Other EU countries have much better welfare distribution within their country. This won't suddenly change now. In fact it might be worse than ever before. Jonson and co never promised to do something about this. In fact it's silly people believing that they will get more money now. How? Was there any intentiative to take money from London/SE England to redistribute it better within the country? Actually the EU invested much more into redistribution than the british government...

And noone(!!!!!) has prevented investments from the british governments into structurally weak regions. They just didn't want to...

[Deleted]

I'm glad leavers won. Remainers live in a fantasy world in every category except capitalism and arguably the internet.

This image says it all. The so called educated young people are what young ignorant people are everywhere, idealists. And to no ones surprise the leftists decide to paint the right with the same old brush saying they are poorly educated and so on.
Same old same old.

[Jessicka]

Of course i meant decades ago.

Yeah i understand the problem. But that's not an EU problem. Other EU countries have much better welfare distribution within their country. This won't suddenly change now. In fact it might be worse than ever before. Jonson and co never promised to do something about this. In fact it's silly people believing that they will get more money now. How? Was there any intentiative to take money from London/SE England to redistribute it better within the country? Actually the EU invested much more into redistribution than the british government...

And noone(!!!!!) has prevented investments from the british governments into structurally weak regions. They just didn't want to...

Of course it's not an EU problem, they give those places a lot of money, which is why Labour told them to Remain. It was an anti-establishment protest to change things, as they have no voice otherwise, and haven't for nearly 40 years.

[Bollocks]

This image says it all. The so called educated young people are what young ignorant people are everywhere, idealists. And to no ones surprise the leftists decide to paint the right with the same old brush saying they are poorly educated and so on.
Same old same old.

What that images shows me is that those who voted leave oppose capitalism, enviromental conservation, globalization, immigration and the internet. Things that arguably have benefited Great Britain more than it has damaged it.

[Reklia]

I don't consider the Express to be a valid source of anything more than right wing conspiracies, it never tells a full story. You shouldn't either, it's well renound it's works of fiction and misinformation. It's the least objective news source in mass publication.

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A lot. But if they're such a problem, why the fuck is London so desperate to stay?

Feel free to google the name then. It appears on other sites.

[Cosmic Janitor]

So the people that think the internet is the devil have won? Interesting argument you are trying to make here.

In buzzwords you could also say xenophobic regressive sexists polluting isolationist technical Luddites won. Who'd have thunk?

[Deleted]

Do you have any information on how these funds are spent or do they go into slush funds never to be seen by the ordinary people.

Farm subsidies, Regional development, culture and science.
I'm guessing a lot went into building better roads.

[Deleted]

I am starting to get the feeling that the Brexit Politicians, Voters are surprised that things went the way it did.

I mean you got the likes of Farage other Brexit Politicians, backpedaling so hard on promises, they could supply the world with energy.
Cameron ran off before he had to invoking Article 50.
British People wanting to change their vote saying they voted for it as a form of protest and did not think it would count.
A petition running around asking for a second referendum.
Political Parties promising to be against the referendum in return for votes.