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  1. #121
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Speculation.

    A young guy once wanted this family heritage. So he wanted his parents dead so he could get the money and property. He tried to buy a rifle, but was turned down because he was under 21. So he went to a sporting goods store and bought a baseball bat, went home and while they slept, bashed their heads in. He is now serving a life term in a prison.

    Just pointing out there are other ways one can kill another if they want to bad enough.
    While that isn't wrong, can we at least try not to make excuses for guns?
    I mean, how many people are murdered every year with baseball bats?
    For fun sake, I can kill you with a spoon, or any other object. But how many people actually die that way?
    There is a clear correlation between death toll and the tool used for the killing.
    Guns leading that statistic by far.

    One can be pro gun rights, but still acknowledge the obvious.
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  2. #122
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    Now I am not an American so like Jon Snow I know nothing but what is it with Americas passion with needing guns to protect their homes. Other countries dont use guns within their home or feel the need to be passionate about having them within their homes?

    Yet tell an American (or most) that guns are bad and its like I am asking them to give up their unborn child or kill their dog.

    I feel it must stem from a cultural thing, its a very wild west mindset, so if someone can explain to be why Americans feel they NEED for guns to protect them let me know? Especially when for example most (if not all) European countries do not have this mindset.
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  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    honestly I think mental evaluations should be used too.
    That's part of the problem though..
    Mentally disturbed, and intellectual disadvantaged people will always oppose that portion. Because they'd definitely be disarmed.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  4. #124
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    Of course. Can even do it with your thumbs.

    But you're probably not gonna be very succesful going on a killing spree in a mall/movie theatre/club/whatever with your thumbs. Or a baseball bat for that matter. For instance.

    Also a lot easier to accidentally severely injure or kill someone with a gun than with your thumbs. Or a baseball bat.
    Of course. I agree with you. But the point remains my post was it is speculation to assume she would not have or could have without a firearm to kill her daughters. Was it easier with a firearm? Absolutely.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    While that isn't wrong, can we at least try not to make excuses for guns?
    I mean, how many people are murdered every year with baseball bats?
    For fun sake, I can kill you with a spoon, or any other object. But how many people actually die that way?
    There is a clear correlation between death toll and the tool used for the killing.
    Guns leading that statistic by far.

    One can be pro gun rights, but still acknowledge the obvious.
    More people die by Accidents (unintentional injuries) by a significantly larger margin than guns. Guns don't even make the top 10 causes of death in the US. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lead...s-of-death.htm
    Last edited by Gen4Glock21; 2016-06-26 at 12:58 PM.

  6. #126
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    See, police don't just kill black people who have guns, they shoot stupid rich white bitches too!

    But seriously, what a fucking cunt, she deserved what she got. Stupid dumb redneck.

  7. #127
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    While that isn't wrong, can we at least try not to make excuses for guns?
    I mean, how many people are murdered every year with baseball bats?
    For fun sake, I can kill you with a spoon, or any other object. But how many people actually die that way?
    There is a clear correlation between death toll and the tool used for the killing.
    Guns leading that statistic by far.

    One can be pro gun rights, but still acknowledge the obvious.
    Firearms are only one of many reasons people get killed or die each year. They are a tool and one which does require safe use and not everyone should have one, but since it is a Constitutional right in the US, the reasons can not be "because they can be used so easily to kill people ". We have laws on the books in all states which have clear written reasons why a person can not have one. But the lack of enforcement is the issue. Not the firearms.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post

    They mean practical uses to improve quality of life.

    Surviving a attack on your life can also help to improve your life. Hard to do that if you are dead or badly injured. And we know how hobbies can be good for a person. They can reduce stress and help a person be happier in general. Some enjoy target shooting and hunting. As a hobby for the very same reasons some enjoy painting or playing video games.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Gen4Glock21 View Post
    Agreed or how about this incident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates or
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh

    But of course the only way to kill is a gun.
    Ahh yes, the typical pro gun strawman defense arguement. "People can kill other people all sorts of ways, therefore guns aren't bad". Utterly fucking stupid arguement.

    There are hundreds of thousands of ways to kill people. Any idiot can kill an unsuspecting individual pretty much 100% of the time with damn near anything. Being able to bash your parents brains out while they sleep does not magically put a baseball bat in the same category as a gun when it comes to how dangerous it is. Kid could just as easily have smothered them with a pillow. Guess that makes pillows as dangerous as guns.

    The arguement has always been that a gun is able to inflict orders of magnitude more damage, with a signifigantly larger range of effect, then pretty much anything else available should someone want to hurt someone else. Take a gun, attack a target. Count the bodys. Take pretty much anything else, re-enact the same scenario. Body count will ALWAYS be lower.

    But no, you people will keep your country wading in the blood of the victims while you keep pretending that there is no difference between knives or bats or any other signifigantly less dangerous thing and guns.

  9. #129
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Ahh yes, the typical pro gun strawman defense arguement. "People can kill other people all sorts of ways, therefore guns aren't bad". Utterly fucking stupid arguement.

    There are hundreds of thousands of ways to kill people. Any idiot can kill an unsuspecting individual pretty much 100% of the time with damn near anything. Being able to bash your parents brains out while they sleep does not magically put a baseball bat in the same category as a gun when it comes to how dangerous it is. Kid could just as easily have smothered them with a pillow. Guess that makes pillows as dangerous as guns.

    The arguement has always been that a gun is able to inflict orders of magnitude more damage, with a signifigantly larger range of effect, then pretty much anything else available should someone want to hurt someone else. Take a gun, attack a target. Count the bodys. Take pretty much anything else, re-enact the same scenario. Body count will ALWAYS be lower.

    But no, you people will keep your country wading in the blood of the victims while you keep pretending that there is no difference between knives or bats or any other signifigantly less dangerous thing and guns.
    Please tell me what would've prevented this woman from owning a gun in your reality?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Firearms are only one of many reasons people get killed or die each year. They are a tool and one which does require safe use and not everyone should have one, but since it is a Constitutional right in the US, the reasons can not be "because they can be used so easily to kill people ". We have laws on the books in all states which have clear written reasons why a person can not have one. But the lack of enforcement is the issue. Not the firearms.
    Atomic bombs are also only a tool. Wonder why the entire planet was smart enough to NEVER FUCKING EVER USE THEM AGAIN, after the first couple were dropped. But hey, guns are still cool, right, because there are other things out there that kill people too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Please tell me what would've prevented this woman from owning a gun in your reality?
    Lack of a gun culture that borders on religious fanaticism and generations worth of conditioning related to said gun culture would be a decent start.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    When did anyone say it was the only way? It's an absurdly easy way though and even current laws aren't enforced enough. Most liberals don't want to take guns away, just a better background check system and honestly I think mental evaluations should be used too. There's no reason getting a gun should be easier than getting a driver's license.
    Glad you mentioned driver's license maybe it should be harder to get one, maybe they should require mental health evaluations for a driver's license. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

  12. #132
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Lack of a gun culture that borders on religious fanaticism and generations worth of conditioning related to said gun culture would be a decent start.
    So since she wasn't born and raised in that culture she would still own a gun? Right? We cannot go back in time to change her culture now can we?
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2024 - that's two-zero-two-four, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of still-masked clots ridden infertile senile sissies who want the Last Ukrainian to die so they can get on with the War on China, with some middle-eastern genocide on the side

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Ahh yes, the typical pro gun strawman defense arguement. "People can kill other people all sorts of ways, therefore guns aren't bad". Utterly fucking stupid arguement.

    There are hundreds of thousands of ways to kill people. Any idiot can kill an unsuspecting individual pretty much 100% of the time with damn near anything. Being able to bash your parents brains out while they sleep does not magically put a baseball bat in the same category as a gun when it comes to how dangerous it is. Kid could just as easily have smothered them with a pillow. Guess that makes pillows as dangerous as guns.

    The arguement has always been that a gun is able to inflict orders of magnitude more damage, with a signifigantly larger range of effect, then pretty much anything else available should someone want to hurt someone else. Take a gun, attack a target. Count the bodys. Take pretty much anything else, re-enact the same scenario. Body count will ALWAYS be lower.

    But no, you people will keep your country wading in the blood of the victims while you keep pretending that there is no difference between knives or bats or any other signifigantly less dangerous thing and guns.
    According to this we should be more worried by,
    All unintentional injury deaths

    Number of deaths: 130,557
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 41.3
    Cause of death rank: 4

    Unintentional fall deaths

    Number of deaths: 30,208
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 9.6

    Motor vehicle traffic deaths

    Number of deaths: 33,804
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

    Unintentional poisoning deaths

    Number of deaths: 38,851
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.3

    All of which surpass firearms by a significantly larger margin than guns. Found here btw http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm

  14. #134
    Meh, why should I care? People die every day, for an assortment of reasons.


    Where are the threads every time a shooting happens in Chicago?

    "AHHH Guns are bad, protect us Gubment." Im sure there was no way for her to stab or bludgeon the girls to death.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Ahh yes, the typical pro gun strawman defense arguement. "People can kill other people all sorts of ways, therefore guns aren't bad". Utterly fucking stupid arguement.
    Guns Are not bad, they are inanimate objects, inert, with out feelings or will. Is a rock bad? A pair of scissors?

    What PEOPLE do with guns CAN sometimes, rarely (when looking at all the usage on a daily basis) be bad.
    Last edited by IIamaKing; 2016-06-26 at 01:24 PM.
    READ and be less Ignorant.

  15. #135
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    The number of incidents in which someone defended their life with a firearm is insanely minuscule compared to the number of murders caused by legal gun owners. I'm perfectly fine with guns for hunting and target practice. Again, I don't advocate taking guns away but as you said yourself, lack of enforcement is the issue but not even that can be improved thanks to republicans shooting down almost every proposal ever made to strengthen background checks and enforcement as well as fund research for gun violence to help understand how to reduce it without taking guns away.
    One thing to keep in mind is we do not know how many times a firearm has deterred a criminal. The only record we have is the ones reported to the police. There are some loop holes which need to be closed , but overall it is just a matter of enforcing the laws we have, not coming up with more strict ones.

  16. #136
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    You mean to tell me the mom didn't kill her children with a semi automatic assault rifle?? No story here.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    Of course. I agree with you. But the point remains my post was it is speculation to assume she would not have or could have without a firearm to kill her daughters. Was it easier with a firearm? Absolutely.
    Aye, I don't think banning is really a proper solution especially in the USA case, and indeed it really is speculation and we'll never know what would've happened in this case with weapons banned.

    And it's always a conflicting thing because you're removing/inconveniencing rights from responsible people who would actually never use it with ill intent because of the "few" unstable/dumb/negligent that make gun ownership a problem.

    But in the end I'd say it's worth inconveniencing people who collect/use/practice with guns as a hobby if it means reducing the chance of such things happening - Especially with the case of automatic/military-grade weaponry.

  18. #138
    Yeah you're right guys, there's no connection here. LOL.

    The level of denial and mental gymnastics is completely insane. Talk about indoctrinated.

    She had lots of guns around the house, so a heated argument escalated and blam. That's what happens when they're easily available.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    So since she wasn't born and raised in that culture she would still own a gun? Right? We cannot go back in time to change her culture now can we?
    AND WE SURE CAN'T FIX IT GOING FORWARD NO SIREE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen4Glock21 View Post
    According to this we should be more worried by,
    All unintentional injury deaths

    Number of deaths: 130,557
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 41.3
    Cause of death rank: 4

    Unintentional fall deaths

    Number of deaths: 30,208
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 9.6

    Motor vehicle traffic deaths

    Number of deaths: 33,804
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

    Unintentional poisoning deaths

    Number of deaths: 38,851
    Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.3

    All of which surpass firearms by a significantly larger margin than guns. Found here btw http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm
    Yeah and people die of heart attacks too. No sense trying to fix the homicide problem until we've found a cure for that!
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2016-06-26 at 01:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  19. #139
    Truly a shame religion exists,truly a shame crazy people exist,truly a shame religious crazy people exist and breed.

    Any combo of those is more the REASON(s) these children are now dead ... the method or murder is interchangeable.(Not that it matters because we always ONLY focus on method...)

    Deal with the REASON ....method becomes useless/pointless.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Nexx226 View Post
    When did anyone say it was the only way? It's an absurdly easy way though and even current laws aren't enforced enough. Most liberals don't want to take guns away, just a better background check system and honestly I think mental evaluations should be used too. There's no reason getting a gun should be easier than getting a driver's license.
    While we are infringing on rights, how about that voter ID?
    READ and be less Ignorant.

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