So Garrosh is technically still alive?

[HeiAggra]

I really liked Thrall up till the world of warcraft story starts, everything since than has made me hate him more and more. As for bring the blood elfs and undead to the horde....the blood elf have already tried to join the alliance and the forsaken want to kill everyone, I would not call bringing them into the horde a plus.

As for Vol'jin I feel he's a hypocrite as well always going on about how the horde is family but when we needed him against Garrosh he was going to leave the horde. You don't abandoned family, not to mention my issues with a non orc ruling the horde in the first place. There are other issues I have with him but this is getting off topic.

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Why not? Those undead you speak are the scourge, these are the undead. They just want to have a chance to live, because they were being hunted left and right by all! Also it was a great deal for the Horde a base on enemy lands! The Blood Elfs why not? They were Alliance so i think it was a cleaver move. info on the enemy. Well that's your opion on Vol'jin not mine. I see him as a cleaver guy, cunning and does what needs to be done without many attencion. Non orc rulling it's no problem for me im not a racist hahaha!

[Dekas]

Not really, no. Thrall was deeply respected by Sylvannas, respected by Lorth'emar, and blood-brothers with Cairne and Vol'jin.


Let me see, I had something of a metaphor for Thrall/Garrosh.

Imaginary situation - We have this one guy called Robert. Robert inherits the position of CEO of a failing, near-bankrupt company that was started by a now-deceased older mentor of his, called Oliver. Robert takes this company, and with his own sweat, blood, tears, and charisma, turns it into a multi-billionare company. He is well-liked, and his stockholders agree with the vast majority of his decisions.....

Your only problem with the story is that Thrall knew to leave the warsong behind in warcraft 3 because Grom was violent and unstable. The fact he ignored that about Garrosh, when Garrosh himself said he was not ready is just stupid.

My issues with Thrall stems from a lot more than just what happened with Garrosh but again that is a bit of topic.

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[Dekas]

Why not? Those undead you speak are the scourge, these are the undead. They just want to have a chance to live, because they were being hunted left and right by all! Also it was a great deal for the Horde a base on enemy lands! The Blood Elfs why not? They were Alliance so i think it was a cleaver move. info on the enemy. Well that's your opion on Vol'jin not mine. I see him as a cleaver guy, cunning and does what needs to be done without many attencion. Non orc rulling it's no problem for me im not a racist hahaha!

Not about being a racist, the other races are their own factions. let me explain, the undead are the Forsaken, the Trolls are the dark spear etc etc. The orc faction is the horde and their leader is the warchief. It makes no sense for us to have a racial leader beyond the warchief unless we have clans again.

I have no issue with Vol'jin leading the horde my issue is with him having the title of warchief. What is our racial leader going to be called? The leader of the Orcs is the warchief.

my issue with the blood elfs is when they tired to leave the horde and rejoin the alliance not that they were alliance.

Sylvannas respects no one, I love her as a character easy my number 2. I'm not stupid though she wants to live forever and that is all she cares about. Her "people" are nothing but a shield and the horde convenient.

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[HeiAggra]

Not about being a racist, the other races are their own factions. let me explain, the undead are the Forsaken, the Trolls are the dark spear etc etc. The orc faction is the horde and their leader is the warchief. It makes no sense for us to have a racial leader beyond the warchief unless we have clans again.

I have no issue with Vol'jin leading the horde my issue is with him having the title of warchief. What is our racial leader going to be called? The leader of the Orcs is the warchief.

my issue with the blood elfs is when they tired to leave the horde and rejoin the alliance not that they were alliance.

Sylvannas respects no one, I love her as a character easy my number 2. I'm not stupid though she wants to live forever and that is all she cares about. Her "people" are nothing but a shield and the horde convenient.

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You still have the clans in the Orcs, they just all together. But they exist just not the way it was on draenor. The Orc racial lider will be the Chieftain. As Sylvannas goes there more then meets the eye. The BE Lor'themar gaved a tought on going back to the alliance or being himself the warchief. But when Thrall returns and appoints Vol'jin nobody complaint.

[Mehrunes]

Technically they both cheated since they aren't supposed to have on any armor at all.

From http://wow.gamepedia.com/Mak%27gora.

Garrosh had only a belt. Hardly constitutes armor. Thrall is in plate armor. And while the players were not in the cinematic we are in the location of the duel after it ends so we most likely count as witnesses. Where is Garrosh' witness? With Thrall issuing the challenge he should have made sure that Garrosh has one. So even if Thrall using his power all around them does not count as another weapon, he broke the rules of Mak'gora and should be ostracized.

He didn't cheat... he used the Elements. If you are fighting and just happen to have a volcano erupt beneath you, is your opponent disqualified? Using magic is bad, I assume. But nature...especially to an orc, isn't cheating. If the elements don't like you, you don't deserve to win.

But it's not about Elements disliking Garrosh. It was explicitly stated that Thrall forced them to do his bidding and that is the reason they told him to fuck off afterwards. Magic is a weapon in Warcraft. Now, movie is not canon, but Gul'dan using magic was cheating. How is Thrall going "haha, I have a trump card and another power other than Doomhammer" not breaking the rule of one weapon only?

[Traveler Voltin]

Once again

Magic has been used before

Thrall did not cheat.

[Mehrunes]

Once again

Magic has been used before

Thrall did not cheat.

Any other example than Thrall's pussified Mak'gora at the start of Wrath? Or, you know, actual proof of the official rules ever changing. Either way, that still leaves Garrosh not having witnesses and Thrall sporting full plate.

[Kolvarg]

Honestly it actually baffles me that almost everyone sees WoD as we, the players, timetravelling.

My understanding has always been that Garrosh timetraveled into the past of an alternate dimension, and took X years (+/- how much he went back) to bring the clans together and set up the necessary infrastructure for his war machine and to build siege/war devices and equip and train the Iron Horde, then trying to invade Azeroth in the present.

Ie both alternate universes share the same time, we don't timetravel, we just take a portal to a different dimension/universe. It was Garrosh who not onyl went to this alternate universe but also to its past, to have time (and timing) to build the Iron Horde.

Makes more sense to me tbh, even if it doesn't match all details.

[Skilrathos]

Any other example than Thrall's pussified Mak'gora at the start of Wrath? Or, you know, actual proof of the official rules ever changing. Either way, that still leaves Garrosh not having witnesses and Thrall sporting full plate.

As I pointed out in an earlier post Garrosh had on his armored gauntlet, his belt, armored boots. I couldn't give a flying rat's ass if Thrall cheated or not. Seeing Garrosh turned into a crispy critter while being crush by a giant rock fist made me happy. Not as happy if we had delivered the killing blow but still happy.

[Deleted]

Pretty dead. For now. Who knows what the sha corruption could do - he could return as a sha thingie that wants to destroy everything. Seriously doubt it, but who knows ?

[Traveler Voltin]

Any other example than Thrall's pussified Mak'gora at the start of Wrath? Or, you know, actual proof of the official rules ever changing. Either way, that still leaves Garrosh not having witnesses and Thrall sporting full plate.

Paladin vs shaman

[FelPlague]

so plain and simple, we should all know this

thrall cheated, he hated that he cheated, but he realized he fucked up, during that fight he realized "i made this monster, i needed to take him out, but i may have overdone myself" so he cheats, even when garrosh said "you made me what i am" thralls voice sorta cracks, showing "hey maybe i did" and we see this in legion, with a mix of him having self doubt, and the elements not liking him cheating, he is no longer able to commune with the elements

so plain and simple

THRALL DID CHEAT either he wanted to or not... also the armor thing, i dont think either of them cared, the armor he was wearing is a thing mail plating, they dident go through the full prep for sure, as if you notice neither of them took off anything, garrosh lost his shoulder pads in SoO, but yes

thrall realized he fucked up, he knew he couldent let garrosh get away because of his cockyness... he needed to beat him, and he knew he could not beat garrosh hand to hand, he let his anger get ahold of him, and now hes paying for it

[Qualia]

Honestly it actually baffles me that almost everyone sees WoD as we, the players, timetravelling.

My understanding has always been that Garrosh timetraveled into the past of an alternate dimension, and took X years (+/- how much he went back) to bring the clans together and set up the necessary infrastructure for his war machine and to build siege/war devices and equip and train the Iron Horde, then trying to invade Azeroth in the present.

Ie both alternate universes share the same time, we don't timetravel, we just take a portal to a different dimension/universe. It was Garrosh who not onyl went to this alternate universe but also to its past, to have time (and timing) to build the Iron Horde.

Makes more sense to me tbh, even if it doesn't match all details.

Everyone see WoD as we were time-travelling because that is the case. We did the same thing as Garrosh, travelling to an alternate universe in the past. Garrosh arrived in the 35-years-ago AU Draenor. He wasn't going to spend a whole 35 years building his forces.

[Raugnaut]

Your only problem with the story is that Thrall knew to leave the warsong behind in warcraft 3 because Grom was violent and unstable. The fact he ignored that about Garrosh, when Garrosh himself said he was not ready is just stupid.

My issues with Thrall stems from a lot more than just what happened with Garrosh but again that is a bit of topic.

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Garrosh said he wasn't ready AFTER he had completely failed - Again passing up responsibility for his own actions. Rather then saying that he completely failed, and it was all his fault, his attitude was more like "I COULD have done this, if you gave me a few more years". Note that previous to this, Garrosh challenged Thrall to Mok'gora, and continually questioned Thrall's every decision in Northrend, leading to a large number of diplomatic fallouts in a time when all of Azeroth should have been united against the Lich King. So previous to actually becoming Warchief, Garrosh obviously thought he was ready for it. Newsflash - It's not that Garrosh wasn't ready for it, as much as he NEVER would have been a succesful Warchief in a diverse Horde.

Thrall did not leave Grom and the warsong behind because they were violent and unstable - He left Grom and the warsong clan behind because he had full trust that they could handle pretty much whatever was thrown at them to establish a new base of operations. Note that he did NOT have any clue at the time of the Night Elves, and Cenarious, so he was thinking that Grom and the Warsong would only have to deal with a few indigenous species like Furbolgs and Quilboar, not with a coordinated and high advanced civilization with powerful magics and a full demigod on their side.

Again, Thralls only mistake came about when he put Garrosh in the position of Warchief out of respect for his father, rather then Garrosh's own capabilities.

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Everyone see WoD as we were time-travelling because that is the case. We did the same thing as Garrosh, travelling to an alternate universe in the past. Garrosh arrived in the 35-years-ago AU Draenor. He wasn't going to spend a whole 35 years building his forces.

Garrosh arrived quite a few years before we did though. Not 35, but giving how events went down in the books, likely 5 or so years.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Thrall roasted his ass, he's gone.

Thrall should have died in the Siege of Orgrimmar, and Vol'jin or the PC should have gotten the kill on Garrosh.

[apelsinjuice]

WoD should never happend, still in 2016 people have a really hard time to understand the concept and the story of how it all works

[Teebone]

....No Garrosh is dead. He got struck by Lightning.

While being crushed by a stone fist.

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Thrall should have died in the Siege of Orgrimmar, and Vol'jin or the PC should have gotten the kill on Garrosh.

That was the ultimate insult WoD offered to me. Players deserved that kill. Not fucking Green Jesus.

[Sylvaeres]

You damn well know that Garrosh is dead: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-WoD-or-before

I'll never understand why people do things like this. Kid obviously knows what's going on, but creates a random thread acting like he left his brain somewhere

[Deleted]

I'll never understand why people do things like this. Kid obviously knows what's going on, but creates a random thread acting like he left his brain somewhere

erm no this is the lore section of the thorum and i had a question. weird how you go straight to the negative option. must be a personality trait you need to work on

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stop calling this a troll thread, look at the debates going on, obviously this question is not clear to many people.

[Zulkhan]

Garrosh had only a belt. Hardly constitutes armor. Thrall is in plate armor. And while the players were not in the cinematic we are in the location of the duel after it ends so we most likely count as witnesses. Where is Garrosh' witness? With Thrall issuing the challenge he should have made sure that Garrosh has one. So even if Thrall using his power all around them does not count as another weapon, he broke the rules of Mak'gora and should be ostracized.

I don't think there's much of a point in looking at all the various rules of a traditional Mak'gora because this is at least the third time we see one barely meeting any rule to begin with.

My only problem here is Thrall blatantly going overboard in his usage of magic, magic he had no effective need of in order to compete with Garrosh. And he didn't just use magic, he used A LOT of it, to the point of briefly bending the elements' will to his own. He didn't even act out of necessity, he simply let his anger and Garrosh's teasing get the best of him.

Garrosh should have just been captured and executed without much of a show, but it was Thrall's own idea to come up with this "duel of honor" bullshit so he should have at least gone through it until the very end. Instead he just got angry at some point and crushed Garrosh like an ant for the hell of it.

Any other example than Thrall's pussified Mak'gora at the start of Wrath?

In Bloodsworn there's a Mak'gora between a Paladin and a Shaman, both use magic.

This said, I think the thing is much more legit when the opponents are somewhat on par. Thrall occasionally using Chain Lighting in WotLK shouldn't be a big deal, but the way he abused the elements in WoD was way over the top and offerred Garrosh no chance to defend himself.

What we saw in WoD wasn't really any different from the Gul'dan vs Durotan duel of the movie.

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stop calling this a troll thread, look at the debates going on, obviously this question is not clear to many people.

Yeah, except the fact that none of these debates have much to do with your question. Garrosh is obviously dead.