Where did morality come from?

[Shinra1]

I know some people say evolution but since when was being 'good' a survival advantage? And in fact being self-centered, competitive and an outright douche would more than likely ensure your survival in a Darwinian world.

There are two types of morality 'subjective and objective' with the latter being the holy grail.

Beyond this I was also wondering why some people are more moral than others? For example, I am more moral than a lot of the people in my life and to the same extent more judgmental.

[I Push Buttons]

As a social construct to encourage individuals to conform to the group.

Including pretty common sense things like being alive being preferable to being dead... Helping being better than hurting... Etc.

[Uoyredrum]

I know some people say evolution but since when was being 'good' a survival advantage? And in fact being self-centered, competitive and an outright douche would more than likely ensure your survival in a Darwinian world.

There are two types of morality 'subjective and objective' with the latter being the holy grail.

Beyond this I was also wondering why some people are more moral than others? For example, I am more moral than a lot of the people in my life and to the same extent more judgmental.

Morality is a social construct. We learn it from others. Certain parts of morality are seemingly built into our psyche through evolution but most of it is learned through experience. It's something that's useful in a society, not so much for survival. You can't really have a society advance if everyone kills each other for no reason.

[Osmeric]

Morality is a mechanism for maintaining social control in groups of tribal (~150 people) size.

It may have originated due to the survival advantage it presented in tribal warfare.

Like other aspects of human cognition it likely has a biological and evolutionary basis.

[Phiir42]

Morality exists for the same reason as altruism: to promote group survival and therefore increase the probability of replicating one's genes.

Also, there is no such thing as "objective morality."

[ranzino]

"Dont steal, lie seldom and dont throw your grandma down the stairs" is not © Ten Commandments. it's social behavior.

[Deleted]

Well at least how I believe it happened:

1. Humans are shit at surviving on their own ->
2. Humans had to bond together to survive ->
3. Rules had to be made, because groups tend to split apart when you kill each other all the time - coming back to point 1.

So yes, I do think, that there is no such thing as a "real" objective "good" or "bad". But I do think, that looking at helping and protecting each other is the right thing to do for us humans. And yes, obviously there are people who disagree with me. And I tend to distance myself from them. At least from a friendship-level.

[GimmeThatDragon]

Adam and Steve

[D Luniz]

I know some people say evolution but since when was being 'good' a survival advantage? And in fact being self-centered, competitive and an outright douche would more than likely ensure your survival in a Darwinian world.

There are two types of morality 'subjective and objective' with the latter being the holy grail.

Beyond this I was also wondering why some people are more moral than others? For example, I am more moral than a lot of the people in my life and to the same extent more judgmental.

If you want to sleep at night without getting your throat slit, its far easier if you have some people that you can work with

[Deleted]

When the police is made of of privileged euroamericans (read: white) men what do you expect?


[Infracted]

Oh Shinra beacon of morality, teach us.

Funny thing about people who think they are more moral: Only to their own agenda.
Take that shit you were infracted for earlier. If someone wouldve twisted the words for their agenda:

When the police is made of of wishfull thinking multicultural heroes (read: black and latino) men what do you expect?

Youd be all over em. Moral people are hypocrites.

[Shinra1]

Morality is a social construct. We learn it from others. Certain parts of morality are seemingly built into our psyche through evolution but most of it is learned through experience. It's something that's useful in a society, not so much for survival. You can't really have a society advance if everyone kills each other for no reason.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Thank you.

Natural morality (evolution derived) is completely different from morality which comes from societal norms and social teachings.

Why do you think some people are more moral than others?

[Grimbold21]

Social interaction.

[Shinra1]

x.

Grow up.


You're not presenting any counter arguments just crying about my supposed misstep. There was a black woman that was raped by the police and the guy got 3 months probation you don't think that's a coincidence do you?

Morality is a mechanism for maintaining social control in groups of tribal (~150 people) size.

It may have originated due to the survival advantage it presented in tribal warfare.

Like other aspects of human cognition it likely has a biological and evolutionary basis.

Why then are some people more moral than others and some people (in fact many than you would expect) amoral and plain rude/evil/nasty.

[Caerule]

Humans have been effective, because of the social tendencies imprinted in our genes. Raising children in partnerships. Working in cooperative groups. Even our empathic capabilities reaching beyond our species, to allow for domestication of animals. These things have allowed us to more effectively obtain average wealth per individual, and ensure the survival of our genetic code. A tribe that has both parents loyally raise children has more genetic diversity, and higher child survival rate, than a system of non-monogamy. Halting incest also increases genetic variety. Cooperation lets individuals specialize in roles, and succeed at larger tasks together. Not murdering each other, even when paths don't align, leads to a greater variety in genes and perspectives.

Being a dick can work. It certainly works for the great apes for a degree, where harem structures can exist. Like Gorillas. But that's not the path that won out for humans. Those that did better than the others, were those whose genes were selected into our current morality. And part of that is that there's social consequences to being a dick, and going against the morality.

It's laid the foundation for a system of expanding social evolution, where more elaborate systems of morality are constructed upon. As elaborate as our current system of laws and social norms. And of course, a lot of variation exists. But it's only maintained because the majority has the foundation for the current system we have.

You have to remember that "Fitness" doesn't just depend on how well of a life you carve out for yourself. It can help. You're not going to pass on your genes if you can't prosper. But you also need to be selected as a partner, invest in your children's fitness, and make use of a system of cooperation, in order to be part of a successful lineage.

Basically, a collective/tribe with few self-centered douches performs better than one full of douches. The tribe that prospers, shapes the future of the species.

[Deleted]

Grow up.


You're not presenting any counter arguments just crying about my supposed misstep. There was a black woman that was raped by the police and the guy got 3 months probation you don't think that's a coincidence do you?

Define morality. In your book its ok to be judgemental about whites, but its a-moral to be judgemental about blacks, muslims etc.
Therfor your a hypocrite. Thats not me having to grow up, thats you getting some perspective on your hypocracy.

[nextormento]

What part of "survival of the species" has to do with competition of the individuals?.
Society, and the constructs it spawns, are a collective advantage.

[Shinra1]

Humans have been effective, because of the social tendencies imprinted in our genes. Raising children in partnerships. Working in cooperative groups. Even our empathic capabilities reaching beyond our species, to allow for domestication of animals. These things have allowed us to more effectively obtain average wealth per individual, and ensure the survival of our genetic code. A tribe that has both parents loyally raise children has more genetic diversity, and higher child survival rate, than a system of non-monogamy. Halting incest also increases genetic variety. Cooperation lets individuals specialize in roles, and succeed at larger tasks together. Not murdering each other, even when paths don't align, leads to a greater variety in genes and perspectives.

Being a dick can work. It certainly works for the great apes for a degree, where harem structures can exist. Like Gorillas. But that's not the path that won out for humans. Those that did better than the others, were those whose genes were selected into our current morality. And part of that is that there's social consequences to being a dick, and going against the morality.

It's laid the foundation for a system of expanding social evolution, where more elaborate systems of morality are constructed upon. As elaborate as our current system of laws and social norms. And of course, a lot of variation exists. But it's only maintained because the majority has the foundation for the current system we have.

You have to remember that "Fitness" doesn't just depend on how well of a life you carve out for yourself. It can help. You're not going to pass on your genes if you can't prosper. But you also need to be selected as a partner, invest in your children's fitness, and make use of a system of cooperation, in order to be part of a successful lineage.

Basically, a collective/tribe with few self-centered douches performs better than one full of douches. The tribe that prospers, shapes the future of the species.

Interesting, I had the same thought initially but where you change your mind I stick with the idea that being a douche is much better than being kind, especially today perhaps even more so because of today's culture of being self-driven and motivated by capitalism.

Why are some people more moral than others?

[Deleted]

Humans have been effective, because of the social tendencies imprinted in our genes. Raising children in partnerships. Working in cooperative groups. Even our empathic capabilities reaching beyond our species, to allow for domestication of animals. These things have allowed us to more effectively obtain average wealth per individual, and ensure the survival of our genetic code. A tribe that has both parents loyally raise children has more genetic diversity, and higher child survival rate, than a system of non-monogamy. Halting incest also increases genetic variety. Cooperation lets individuals specialize in roles, and succeed at larger tasks together. Not murdering each other, even when paths don't align, leads to a greater variety in genes and perspectives.

Being a dick can work. It certainly works for the great apes for a degree, where harem structures can exist. Like Gorillas. But that's not the path that won out for humans. Those that did better than the others, were those whose genes were selected into our current morality. And part of that is that there's social consequences to being a dick, and going against the morality.

It's laid the foundation for a system of expanding social evolution, where more elaborate systems of morality are constructed upon. As elaborate as our current system of laws and social norms. And of course, a lot of variation exists. But it's only maintained because the majority has the foundation for the current system we have.

You have to remember that "Fitness" doesn't just depend on how well of a life you carve out for yourself. It can help. You're not going to pass on your genes if you can't prosper. But you also need to be selected as a partner, invest in your children's fitness, and make use of a system of cooperation, in order to be part of a successful lineage.

Basically, a collective/tribe with few self-centered douches performs better than one full of douches. The tribe that prospers, shapes the future of the species.

So how do you explain the huge ammount of sociopaths and psychopaths in places of power due to not being hindered by feelings, ethics or morale in their careerpath when making decisions?

[Revi]

Basic morality makes lots of sense in a Darwinian world if you don't ignore that we're a social animal that depend on our group.

Modern morality has been developed extensively for thousands of years though, we made that.

[Shinra1]

Define morality. In your book its ok to be judgemental about whites, but its a-moral to be judgemental about blacks, muslims etc.
Therfor your a hypocrite. Thats not me having to grow up, thats you getting some perspective on your hypocracy.

Why would I be judgmental about blacks/muslims? They are the downtrodden, the oppressed, the enslaved, the downcast (I can carry on but I will spare you). What is your opinion of the police corruption in oakland?