Miyamoto: Link will always be the hero in mainline Zelda games

[Strangebrew]

You obviously lack forward thinking. What you said boils down to. "This has been this was for 20 years so it must always be this way."

I think you've obviously been triggered by the feminists you so obviously despise. There's nothing for me to "get the fuck over" because I don't particularly care. I'm just playing devil's advocate like I often do because I find it entertaining to explore both sides of an argument.

There isn't any both sides, it boils down to feminists trying to tell a developer what to create and to cater a specific group, despite the developer himself not wanting it.

[Poppincaps]

Why do you want an unimaginative character like "female Link" anyway instead of a new character where they can shine by themselves instead of being overshadowed as just "this character is just an X version of this character"? We don't have black Peter Parker, we have Miles Morales and he's freakin' awesome.

Comparing a video game to a comic in this case is not apt. Your solution would mean that the people who want to play Link as male (including myself) would then be forced to play a female. Not the worst thing in the world, but in this case, I am more for adding options that removing them.

Also Link isn't really a character. He's more of an icon or a symbol. His only defining characteristic is his bravery.

There isn't any both sides, it boils down to feminists trying to tell a developer what to create and to cater a specific group, despite the developer himself not wanting it.

Mind linking the quote where he says he doesn't want Link to be female? I just want him to come out and say it, because as it stands people are going to ask "Is Link going to be female this time?" Every single game reveal until he does.

[Tech614]

I am more for adding options that removing them.

Ah yes, let's make every game as soul less as Dragon Age and Bethesda RPGs from the MC perspective just for the sake of "choice".

Sorry, I'd rather have the Links, Geralts, Nathan Drakes, Master Chiefs, Laura Crofts, and Trevors of the the world over terribly written games just for the sake of "choice".

[mickybrighteyes]

Mind linking the quote where he says he doesn't want Link to be female? I just want him to come out and say it, because as it stands people are going to ask "Is Link going to be female this time?" Every single game reveal until he does.

CLosest you'll get is where he states he based Link and Link's adventures on his own childhood... so Link is most likely a dude because Miyamoto is clearly not a woman.

[Poppincaps]

Ah yes, let's make every game as soul less as Dragon Age and Bethesda RPGs from the MC perspective just for the sake of "choice".

Sorry, I'd rather have the Links, Geralts, Nathan Drakes, Master Chiefs, Laura Crofts, and Trevors of the the world over terribly written games just for the sake of "choice".

*facepalm* You're comparing a character who is intentionally a blank slate to a bunch of characters who have very clearly defined characteristics. Don't be obtuse. I don't want every game to have blank slate characters. I also don't think every game needs to have clearly defined characters either.

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CLosest you'll get is where he states he based Link and Link's adventures on his own childhood... so Link is most likely a dude because Miyamoto is clearly not a woman.

Which is fine. In the concepting I've done for my own game, the MC is a male. There's nothing about him that suggests that he has to be a male, but that's what I want to do so that's how it is. Fuck anyone who say that I am "obligated" to make him female as well.

I just think that Nintendo has unintentionally stoked the fires of the fem Link camp and they've done a shitty job and correcting it.

[eillas]

Simple answer, he wants him a male and thats all.

[KrazyK923]

I just think that Nintendo has unintentionally stoked the fires of the fem Link camp and they've done a shitty job and correcting it.

Dat victim blaming tho.

How has Nintendo stoked the fires of that particularly stupid camp? By showing a picture of the character model from Breath of the Wild last year? By saying "We seriously considered it but decided not to." By them saying "Hey here's Linkle. She's a badass and is really similar to Link's design!"

That's stoking the fires? Or are you pretending them saying "No, we're not doing it" is somehow stoking the fires?

[Tech614]

*facepalm* You're comparing a character who is intentionally a blank slate to a bunch of characters who have very clearly defined characteristics. Don't be obtuse. I don't want every game to have blank slate characters. I also don't think every game needs to have clearly defined characters either.

Link is not a blank slate.

He is a reincarnation, he clearly has a legit back story in almost every game that is clearly defined for you in the early parts of said game.

Just because it blows over your head and you don't get the meaning, that's on you. Not the artist.

Leaving choice up to the player is one of the worst things you can do story telling wise in games. It's basically a copout saying you want to give the player a choice in case they don't like the decision they made creating it. Love the Witcher 3 but the choices in that game are still coputs.

The ending of The Last of Us would have about 1/10th of it's actual impact if they gave you the choice on the matter to copout. Choice is terrible for story telling, and I'm tired of people like you acting like games should add more choice when in fact they should add less.

[Strangebrew]

Mind linking the quote where he says he doesn't want Link to be female? I just want him to come out and say it, because as it stands people are going to ask "Is Link going to be female this time?" Every single game reveal until he does.

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/06/1...h-of-the-wild/

As far as gender goes, Link is definitely a male

There, that's it, end of story, anybody who tries to claim Link should be a female needs to sit down, and shut the fuck up.

[Poppincaps]

Dat victim blaming tho.

How has Nintendo stoked the fires of that particularly stupid camp? By showing a picture of the character model from Breath of the Wild last year? By saying "We seriously considered it but decided not to." By them saying "Hey here's Linkle. She's a badass and is really similar to Link's design!"

That's stoking the fires? Or are you pretending them saying "No, we're not doing it" is somehow stoking the fires?

Link is not a blank slate.

He is a reincarnation, he clearly has a legit back story in almost every game that is clearly defined for you in the early parts of said game.

Just because it blows over your head and you don't get the meaning, that's on you. Not the artist.

Leaving choice up to the player is one of the worst things you can do story telling wise in games. It's basically a copout saying you want to give the player a choice in case they don't like the decision they made creating it. Love the Witcher 3 but the choices in that game are still coputs.

The ending of The Last of Us would have about 1/10th of it's actual impact if they gave you the choice on the matter to copout. Choice is terrible for story telling, and I'm tired of people like you acting like games should add more choice when in fact they should add less.

What exactly are his defining characteristics outside of bravery? I don't mean what he's done like what you listed. Those are his accomplishments. Not his characteristics. He is a blank slate. He's always been a blank slate. Any characteristics you believe he has are simply because you've been projecting onto him for decades.

As for your choice in video games... If you want to watch a story unfold then watch a movie or read a book. A game is about interactivity. Saying that games shouldn't implement interactivity in certain aspects is simply close minded. Not every game needs choices. Not every game needs a linear never-changing story.

I will say that game choices are rarely very effective. One day I want a game where your decisions can completely change the story. Not minor changes or different dialog like we have now.

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https://mynintendonews.com/2016/06/1...h-of-the-wild/



There, that's it, end of story, anybody who tries to claim Link should be a female needs to sit down, and shut the fuck up.

Glad they confirmed it. I shall move on with my life. Kind of a weak confirmation but whatever.

[KrazyK923]

What exactly are his defining characteristics outside of bravery?

...that he's a man. That he's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage. That he's inexorably tied to Zelda through space and time. That his destiny is tied to defeating Ganondorf and preserving the will of the Triforce and the peace of Hyrule.

Those are also characteristics you're ignoring. Gender is a characteristic.

[Mister Cheese]

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/06/1...h-of-the-wild/



There, that's it, end of story, anybody who tries to claim Link should be a female needs to sit down, and shut the fuck up.

This is definitely a part of no shit news. But Nintendo did make link's hair slightly longer and have him be much less buff like in Twilight princess. The article states that Link was made more gender neutral so that women who play the game have an easier time projecting themselves on to him. Why people feel the need to change an established character is beyond me. I don't see anyone clamoring to make Samus male. Or a male Peach. Or even a male Rosalina because she's such a popular character now.

...that he's a man. That he's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage. That he's inexorably tied to Zelda through space and time. That his destiny is tied to defeating Ganondorf and preserving the will of the Triforce and the peace of Hyrule.

Those are also characteristics you're ignoring. Gender is a characteristic.

This is a very poor argument. But it's Nintendo's fault. Miyamoto should have just come out and said "I just want Link to be a guy fucking deal with it." Nobody would have been able to refute that with any rational reasoning. He's an artist. He's the creator of a game series that's been around for 30 years. Nobody should be allowed to come in and tell him what to do because of identity politics.

[Poppincaps]

This is definitely a part of no shit news. But Nintendo did make link's hair slightly longer and have him be much less buff like in Twilight princess. The article states that Link was made more gender neutral so that women who play the game have an easier time projecting themselves on to him. Why people feel the need to change an established character is beyond me. I don't see anyone clamoring to make Samus male. Or a male Peach. Or even a male Rosalina because she's such a popular character now.

Probably because men don't care because we are already well represented. I wouldn't care if they made Samus male. I'm not heavy into Metroid lore but it has always been my impression that Samus is a blank slate character as well.

[shadowmatrix]

My take on what he said is that as far as the official timeline and any remakes Link is the hero and male in the past classic games. But he is not ruling out changes in future games. There could be a different hero and/or a female hero.

[Poppincaps]

...that he's a man. That he's the bearer of the Triforce of Courage. That he's inexorably tied to Zelda through space and time. That his destiny is tied to defeating Ganondorf and preserving the will of the Triforce and the peace of Hyrule.

Those are also characteristics you're ignoring. Gender is a characteristic.

None of those prevents the player from projecting their own personality onto him. Hence, he's a blank slate. You guys act like that's a bad thing.

[KrazyK923]

This is a very poor argument. But it's Nintendo's fault. Miyamoto should have just come out and said "I just want Link to be a guy fucking deal with it." Nobody would have been able to refute that with any rational reasoning. He's an artist. He's the creator of a game series that's been around for 30 years. Nobody should be allowed to come in and tell him what to do because of identity politics.

Why is that a poor argument? I've seen people say that but never explain why.

Why is it a poor argument that the established character is a man, the bearer of the triforce of courage, tied to Zelda through space and time, and destined to uphold the will of the Triforce and stop Ganon?

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None of those prevents the player from projecting their own personality onto him. Hence, he's a blank slate. You guys act like that's a bad thing.

What? lol. I just earlier said that he's a semi-blank slate.

Blank slate means...blank, dude. As in nothing. As in no characteristics. Link is not a blank slate. There's nothing wrong with a blank slate character (I have no idea how you even got that idea since I expressed no opinion on characters like that one way or another), but Link is certainly not one. He has established characteristics. But he doesn't have a lot of them. So you can still project your personality onto him. But you can't sit there and say "Ok well then I think Link is a woman."

Because he isn't.

[Mister Cheese]

Why is that a poor argument? I've seen people say that but never explain why.

Why is it a poor argument that the established character is a man, the bearer of the triforce of courage, tied to Zelda through space and time, and destined to uphold the will of the Triforce and stop Ganon?

Because if Link was female from the beginning I don't think anyone would have cared. His gender doesn't matter. But if Miyamoto wants it that way then let him. It's his vision.

They gave people Linkle and it still wasn't good enough for them because it's just another character. They want "Link with boobs." Which is what Linkle was in the first fucking place.

[KrazyK923]

Because if Link was female from the beginning I don't think anyone would have cared. His gender doesn't matter. But if Miyamoto wants it that way then let him. It's his vision.

They gave people Linkle and it still wasn't good enough for them because it's just another character. They want "Link with boobs." Which is what Linkle was in the first fucking place.

I agree with you but...that doesn't explain why it was a poor argument.

Nintendo was clearly trying to tell people "No, he's a man" in a nice way. I think the logic is sound, but because the entire topic is just so fucking stupid on its face, it doesn't really matter how Nintendo responded, they wouldn't have looked the best.

It was a panicked response to a trap of a question followed by days and days of trying to round the rough edges of what they said. But I still don't think the logic of "Link and Zelda are always X, Y, and Z based on the history of our universe," because it IS. It always has been in every previous game.

[Strangebrew]

This is definitely a part of no shit news. But Nintendo did make link's hair slightly longer and have him be much less buff like in Twilight princess. The article states that Link was made more gender neutral so that women who play the game have an easier time projecting themselves on to him. Why people feel the need to change an established character is beyond me. I don't see anyone clamoring to make Samus male. Or a male Peach. Or even a male Rosalina because she's such a popular character now.

I wouldn't call him gender neutral though, but androgynous.
Which is perfectly fine for me, but at the end of the day, he is still male, and that's how it is going to be, that is who Link is.

I don't see anyone clamoring to make Samus male.

It's not that long ago since feminists tried to force the narrative that Samus is transgendered, i still see that shit today.
Which is just all more hilarious, they want to take away 1 strong female character away from themself.

[KrazyK923]

Well it just goes to show you that women aren't as high on the progressive stack as Transgendered individuals.

Hell, us gay people are about to be kicked off the stack all together.