BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Zarc]

From what ive heard Boris Johnson is nowhere to be found since they won.
Woulnd it be awesome if he just trolled the entire UK?
Maybe hes Jimmy Kimmel in disguise.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is as some rumors would suggest, that he didn't actually want Brexit. He thought Vote Leave were going to lose but that he could feed on that Euroscepticism once Cameron's Premiership was over. His father and the whole family of his sister voted Remain, so it's not like inconceivable that his views would somewhat align with those closest to him. Now he got this super-difficult situation on his hands with Cameron jumping ship. I don't know if I'm supposed to laugh or cry. I don't really think he wanted to have to do a job that would be as difficult as this is going to be. He wanted to be Prime Minister and have some fancy dinner parties and be the people's lovable Prime Clown. So I wouldn't be surprised if the creative solution he comes up with to sort out all of this mess is in the end none other than the UK remaining in the EEA, as then the vast majority of all EU laws could remain in effect while they would deliver the promise of being out of the EU. That would be hysterical. I would laugh so fucking hard. They'd still pay into the EU, they'd have freedom of movement of people still, but they'd get no money back, and so with the UK's special rebate going down the tank with the membership they'd end up paying more in net. Some laws, mostly regarding agriculture and fisheries, they would be out of. Which is why Norway and Iceland doesn't want to take the full step into the Union, who together with Lichtenstein is the only non-EU member states in the EEA. All the laws with the no representation, aside from some laws mostly regarding agriculture and fisheries, of which the latter is the primary reason why it makes sense for Iceland and Norway still not having joined the EU as member states. That way Johnson could deliver his Brexit promise with very little headache, but he would basically have fucked over the country unless he manages to fabricate a narrative in which this gave the country it's sovereignty back or some shit. Interesting times.

[Cosmic Janitor]

So do I.
I live in the SE UK and think it will be interesting if he wins the Tory leadership vote and has to lead the negotiations as I feel he will turn out to be either a complete disaster or exactly the right guy at the right time. I'm just not sure which yet.

Either way, it's an uncertain time for us all.

What really? I mean I can see how depending on a few circumstances one can expect one thing or the other. But if you can see him being a catastrophic failure, how exactly can you honestly see any other possibility.

[Independent voter]

It wouldn't be the first time a politician supported something he didn't believe in.

[klogaroth]

I wouldn't be surprised if it is as some rumors would suggest, that he didn't actually want Brexit.

Johnson's been a eurosceptic since the days he worked at a newspaper.

It is not something he's picked up recently for political points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_...aily_Telegraph

He's a one of a number of people that helped moved euroscepticism from being a left wing cause to a right wing cause, and his writings have been cited as an influence on the emergence of the UKIP. He would probably have been UKIP leader if he thought that was a better route to power.

I don't agree with him, but he's not eurosceptic for points.

[Deleted]

What really? I mean I can see how depending on a few circumstances one can expect one thing or the other. But if you can see him being a catastrophic failure, how exactly can you honestly see any other possibility.

Both Boris or May would be really good short term for the majority of (for want of a better term) "the middle class" in terms of day to day, quality of living stuff, taxation. This will come at the expense to the "call themself working class but never really have" & "genuinely fallen on hard times folks". Many of the people that brought this all about are looking at 1.5 or 2.5 terms of getting dry fucked.

[Cyberowl]

I just had some Brits tell me that they are in the driver seat now...

They are not trying to heal the wound, they rub dirt in it. Every day until negotiations start is a day of disinvestment and zero investment. It's poison for London. But you aren't getting back at the elites, you are eradicating your own jobs. Big firms can move away from this kindergarten stalemate.

Brexit was lead by clowns and now nobody has a plan on what to do.

[Koyoti]

What really? I mean I can see how depending on a few circumstances one can expect one thing or the other. But if you can see him being a catastrophic failure, how exactly can you honestly see any other possibility.

But if you can see him being a catastrophic failure, how exactly can you honestly see any other possibility.

I mean I can see how depending on a few circumstances one can expect one thing or the other

You said it

[Zarc]

the problem is that eu don't have an independent gov that is voted by the peoples (and uk is the most against to it) Merkel is only using germany weigh to get some thing done but ultimately what interest her the most is being reelected by germans, that is the fundamental flaw of the eu.
There is no european leader that will sacrifice it's own popularity in the country and take an harsh decision in the interest of all the 28 countries, the eu should focus on it's parliament that is the only thing voted by the peoples, make the commission directly elected and most importantly reduce the power of the various PMs.

Yes they have... the EU works like any other parliamentary democracy. It's not hard, really.

The Legislature: The Council of the European Union is the upper house, and they consist of one member from the government of each member state. So there is an indirectly elected upper house. Sure beats the appointed upper house of the UK. Then there is the lower house, the European Parliament, which is directly voted in place by the people. These two jointly pass EU laws, just like the two houses of the US Congress. Nobody else.

The Executive: The European Commission is the executive branch of government. The head of the executive is nominated by the upper house and then approved (or not approved) by the lower house, the European Parliament. Sounds familiar? A parliament is elected, a monarch or president nominates a Prime Minister, the parliament approves the Prime Minister (=indirectly elected by the directly elected parliament). It's the same. Also, the European Parliament can dismiss said head of the executive.

In fact Slovakia has as much voting power in the Council as do Germany. In the Parliament each country has seats in accordance with their population size, like the US House, so Germany has the most. But even there the European Parliament actually has regressive proportionality so per capita Slovakia actually has more seats than do Germany. Of course Germany still has the most absolute seats, as well as a history of long-serving heads of government with grand coalitions being a common thing there. So while they may only account for like 13% of actual voting power in the Parliament and 1 out of 28 votes in the Council of course the media will be more interested in the single biggest State with the single most amount of votes relative to any other member state, and so if you are ill informed you might think they are calling all the shots. Kind of like how the US elections tend to focus on the big swing-states as if they alone decide the outcome of the election.

[Slant]

And there are runs of material on climate change. Expecting folks to go out of their way to read it all is a fools errand. Especially if a major vote regarding how we deal with it is looming near.

That's the problem, though, innit? Either you sift through all the sources and inform yourself properly, or you have to rely for experts to dumb it down for you.

The problem really gets out of hand, though, when you dismiss every expert outright... so basically, Brexit people don't want to inform themselves and they dismiss people explaining it to them in easily digestable chunks. What could possibly go wrong?

- - - Updated - - -

er, yes. youre going to have to wait until WERE ready to tell YOU what when we are going to go.
its not your decision, its OURS. now run along & be patient, theres a good little european.

If only you realised that you aren't in the position to be the cute little snob that you think you should be... that makes it a bit pathetic.

[Deleted]

Looks like no one has the balls to invoke article 50 since its career suicide.

[Cybran]

But you aren't getting back at the elites, you are eradicating your own jobs.

Their loss is someone else's win. Rejoice.

[Cyberowl]

Their loss is someone else's win. Rejoice.

I just feel bad for the young voters (!)...they got screwed the most.

[Slant]

Looks like no one has the balls to invoke article 50 since its career suicide.

How can it be career suicide inside the UK? The majority of the people want this? By all means it should be more than enough to launch the new Prime Minister into a well supported term!

[Independent voter]

When it comes time to punish Britain, the EU has to remember that 48-49% of Brits didn't wan't to go.

[Cybran]

I just feel bad for the young voters (!)...they got screwed the most.

When their young voters start working on asparagus farms in Germany for slave wages like other EU members, then they might deserve some sympathy. Not before that.

[Cyberowl]

How can it be career suicide inside the UK? The majority of the people want this? By all means it should be more than enough to launch the new Prime Minister into a well supported term!

Anyone who triggers it will be made responsible for the economic implications of it all. Art. 50 only has one end; UK leaves. 2 years of no investment. 27 nations have to agree with a new deal; unless everyone gets a renegotiation , I can't see the UK getting a better deal. A better deal (for example no freedom of movement and self-managing of the refugee crisis) will be veto'd 100%.

[Koyoti]

If only you realized that you aren't in the position to be the cute little snob that you think you should be... that makes it a bit pathetic.

But apparently we are

The European Union has clarified the way the UK can kickstart formal negotiations to exit the bloc following Thursday's referendum.
It says Britain can trigger Article 50, which sets a two-year deadline for a deal, by making a formal declaration either in a letter or a speech.

Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36632579

I don't agree we should drag it out too long, but 3 or 4 months is really a blip in the ocean as far as this type of negotiation goes.

[Cyberowl]

When their young voters start working on asparagus farms in Germany for slave wages like other EU members, then they might deserve some sympathy. Not before that.

My uncle used to come over too and made 3-4 the buck he used to get in Poland. Slaving indeed.

[AngryCoco]

From what I've gathered plenty of people that voted Leave are regretting that vote after realizing what the consequences actually are. Aswell as finding out the lies...

[Cybran]

My uncle used to come over too and made 3-4 the buck he used to get in Poland. Slaving indeed.

Then the British won't get any sympathy at all. Since according to you, being exploited is fine.