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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    -The reason she helped kill her father is because Thrall the entire Horde took turns raping her into submission;
    -Some Horde members during Vanilla stormed her outposts bound in ropes to make it look like Theramore is doing shady stuff during a time or relative peace;
    -Attacked Theramore during peace talks after Varian's return, pretending to be Twilight Hammer cultists that pretended to be Horde;
    -Forced Putress to betray the Forsaken, ally with the Burning Legion and betray the Alliance at the Wrathgate;
    -Mind-controlled Varian to declare war on them and the rest of the Horde;
    -Secretely paid the Night Elves to cease all trade with the Horde;
    -Pretended to be Twilight Hammer cultists pretending to be Horde to kill some Druids;
    -Moved Crossroads in path of Norwatch soldiers, which caused them to attack it (they mistakenly thought the moving outpost was attacking them) to make it look like Jaina attacked the Horde;
    -Captured the Norwatch soldiers that attacked Crossroads;
    -Adorned Honor's Stand with Alliance flags and put Norwatch soldiers captured earlier there to make it look like Jaina attacked the Horde even more;
    -Dishonored the secret treaty with Night Elves and used them ceasing trade as a justification for an invasion of Ashenvale, despite Night Elves being paid to do so;
    -Made Dustwallow Marsh look like Alliance's highway to the frontlines, which made the Alliance look bad and disrupted the habitats of some animals that Theramore citizens eat, leading to food shortage;
    -Created magnets for Norwatch soldiers and placed them in Durotar, Mulgore, Northern Barrens, Southern Barrens, Azshara and Stonetalon Mountains;
    -Mana bombed a city they made look aggressive with their soldier magnet;
    -Mind-controlled Jaina to take sides during the Divine Bell incident;
    -Had Malkorok pretend he was a Sunreaver that followed his leader to Darnassus and followed her example of taking sides in the conflict;
    -Mind-controlled Jaina again, this time to make her project the actions of that lone Sunreaver (i.e. Malkorok in disguise) on the entire faction without any investigation or proof;
    -Mind-controlled Jaina to make her go full dictator on the Kirin-Tor;
    -Didn't backstab the Blood Elves like she expected them to during the Thunder Isle, which led to losses on her side;
    -Mostly rebelled against Garrosh, leaving her with less Orcs to kill;
    -Did not let Varian execute Garrosh on the spot;
    -Did not correct Moron Zhu that Theramore suffered more than the Pandaren because of Garrosh;
    -Did not dismantle the Horde;
    -Attacked the place of Garrosh' trial pretending to be dopplegangers of various characters from other universes;
    -Made a secret alliance with the Iron Horde that led to their scouting party focusing on Nethergarde;
    -Mind control Khadgar to work with the Horde during WoD;
    -Mind control Khadgar to start a vote about letting them back to Dalaran;
    -Mind control most of the council to vote in favor;
    -Mind control Sylvanas to personally shoot each and every Alliance soldier at the Broken Shore in the back then retreat leaving their corpses to the Legion;
    -Mind control Sylvanas to mind control Genn and Rogers to attack the Forsaken fleet.

    Warcraft history is full of Orcs betraying Jaina if you know where to look for it and are not a blind Horde fanboy hating her because she dared to call the Horde on their bullshit.
    My eyes, they are opened now. I was blind and now I see!

  2. #42
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigby View Post
    People equate a character disliking the Horde as bad writing. Pretty much all of WoW is awfully written, Jaina's not an exception to that, but she's certainly not the worst case by a long shot.
    I totally agree, Vereesa is the actual worst case by a long shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  3. #43
    Why do people...?
    Why do people make posts with the title like "Why do people...?"

  4. #44
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    -Moved Crossroads in path of Norwatch soldiers, which caused them to attack it
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    -Mind control Sylvanas to mind control Genn and Rogers to attack the Forsaken fleet.
    These two were gold.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  5. #45
    I liked the Moron Zhu one better.

  6. #46
    The issue for me is the flip flopping.

    In Tides of War, she was still pro peace but weary of all the effort and little progress. Then Theramore is nuked, and she goes a bit crazy, but gets talked down. This left her in MoP in a place where she wrestled with her anger, but still tried to keep the peace in Dalaran.

    Then they immediately have her go anti horde again because one sunreaver betrays her. Okay, maybe this is keeping with her character after Tides of War, she's still too hurt to suffer another betrayal without a meltdown. But THEN War Crimes seems to have her calm down and FINALLY let go of her rage, bringing her character arc to a conclusion.

    ONLY TO THEN REPEAT IT IN LEGION. I'm just so sick of her going back and forth. Peaceful or angry Jaina, I'm fine with either but I wan them to PICK ONE.

  7. #47
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    I'm just so sick of her going back and forth. Peaceful or angry Jaina, I'm fine with either but I wan them to PICK ONE.
    Exactly. After a while you can't take seriously anymore a character trying to stick her foot in two shoes, it becomes annoying and is no wonder some people would want her to die in some instance/raid, rather than going on with this bullshit. A waste would be, in my opinion, but I can't say is worse of what her character is about right now.

    Or Blizzard makes Jaina stabilize as a character and take a precise standing or, honestly, just let her die.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Exactly. After a while you can't take seriously anymore a character trying to stick her foot in two shoes, it becomes annoying and is no wonder some people would want her to die in some instance/raid, rather than going on with this bullshit. A waste would be, in my opinion, but I can't say is worse of what her character is about right now.

    Or Blizzard makes Jaina stabilize as a character and take a precise standing or, honestly, just let her die.
    "If you needed a better example of how this subforum is vehemently against anybody who calls the Horde out on their shit, this is it. Just look at the exact same people who go on tangent after tangent about any character who expresses an anti-Horde sentiment."

    "It's pathetic. Can you guys really not drag yourselves away from fanaticism of a fantasy character in a fantasy universe to try to be objective?"

    Hur hur hur.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    "If you needed a better example of how this subforum is vehemently against anybody who calls the Horde out on their shit, this is it. Just look at the exact same people who go on tangent after tangent about any character who expresses an anti-Horde sentiment."

    "It's pathetic. Can you guys really not drag yourselves away from fanaticism of a fantasy character in a fantasy universe to try to be objective?"

    Hur hur hur.
    I could turn this into a signature. Don't tempt me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  10. #50
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
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    Blood Elf fans who think their race din do nuffin' to deserve anything.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena Emberlin View Post
    The issue for me is the flip flopping.

    In Tides of War, she was still pro peace but weary of all the effort and little progress. Then Theramore is nuked, and she goes a bit crazy, but gets talked down. This left her in MoP in a place where she wrestled with her anger, but still tried to keep the peace in Dalaran.

    Then they immediately have her go anti horde again because one sunreaver betrays her. Okay, maybe this is keeping with her character after Tides of War, she's still too hurt to suffer another betrayal without a meltdown. But THEN War Crimes seems to have her calm down and FINALLY let go of her rage, bringing her character arc to a conclusion.

    ONLY TO THEN REPEAT IT IN LEGION. I'm just so sick of her going back and forth. Peaceful or angry Jaina, I'm fine with either but I wan them to PICK ONE.
    They make her inconsistent with who exactly she has beef with.

    The Tauren saved her life, warned her of Theramore being bombed and had nothing to do with Garrosh's new Kor'kron regime - How does she still hate them?
    The Trolls led the rebellion in taking out Garrosh, Vol'jin wrote her an apology letter or something of the likes and looked forward to moving on towards peace - How does she hate them?
    She has zero interaction with Undead, Goblins or Huojin - Why does she hate them?

    Her beef is with Orcs and Blood Elves, but its like one writer at Blizzard is aware of this and the other isn't.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Blood Elf fans who think their race din do nuffin' to deserve anything.
    Well enlighten us oh great one. What did the vast majority of the Sin'dorei. Not 2 of them that did such horrific things that deserves the entire race to be painted with the same brush. And not the logical argument of essentially blaming the individuals responsible for actions of said actions.

    You can't logically blame the many for acts of a few. And emotions can not come into this argument.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Well enlighten us oh great one. What did the vast majority of the Sin'dorei. Not 2 of them that did such horrific things that deserves the entire race to be painted with the same brush. And not the logical argument of essentially blaming the individuals responsible for actions of said actions.

    You can't logically blame the many for acts of a few. And emotions can not come into this argument.
    Joined the Horde. You can't just say you're Horde when they're doing great things, then scurry away acting innocent when they do bad things. At least the Tauren tried to warn Jaina, what did the BEs do?

  13. #53
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    Why? Because the Horde must never be questioned, opposed, made to look bad, or handed a defeat.

    Didn't you get the memo?

  14. #54
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Joined the Horde.
    The Kirin Tor wanted Blood Elves in their precious city well aware they were Horde members. They still did after the events of Theramore.

    At least the Tauren tried to warn Jaina, what did the BEs do?
    It's Baine, through his Longrunner, who decided to warn her, and that's only because he owed a mastodontic debt to her. Otherwise, no one would have feel obliged to warn Jaina about anything. There are Tauren that cheered when Garrosh announced the idea to raze Theramore to ashes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    The Kirin Tor wanted Blood Elves in their precious city well aware they were Horde members. They still did after the events of Theramore.



    It's Baine, through his Longrunner, who decided to warn her, and that's only because he owed a mastodontic debt to her. Otherwise, no one would have feel obliged to warn Jaina about anything. There are Tauren that cheered when Garrosh announced the idea to raze Theramore to ashes.
    Had Jaina assaulted any other Horde race it'd be treated as an act of war towards the Horde. Why do Blood Elves take it personally when they're the victims.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Had Jaina assaulted any other Horde race it'd be treated as an act of war towards the Horde. Why do Blood Elves take it personally when they're the victims.
    Because the Kirin Tor asked Blood Elves to join their city and they were meant to be treated equally among their ground.

    When the Queen of Dalaran and her High Elf sidekick decide to imprison, kill, purge people like rabid animals based on assumptions and no evidence whatsoever, you don't exactly feel like you have been treated fairly at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keyblader View Post
    It's a general rule though that if you play horde you are a bad person irl. It's just a scientific fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    The game didn't give me any good reason to hate the horde. Forums did that.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Because the Kirin Tor asked Blood Elves to join their city and they were meant to be treated equally among their ground.

    When the Queen of Dalaran and her High Elf sidekick decide to imprison, kill, purge people like rabid animals based on assumptions and no evidence whatsoever, you don't exactly feel like you have been treated fairly at all.
    Silver Covenant and Sunreavers were both wrong to swear their loyalties to two factions at war then at the same time proclaim neutrality within the Kirin Tor, very counterproductive. Y'know Night Elves, Worgen, Tauren and Trolls have no problem coexisting within neutral factions like Cenarion Circle regardless of their allegiances to their race. I guess High/Blood Elves just aren't blessed with the same kind of civility?

    Well, I certainly don't feel like the Sunreavers didn't deserve it.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Humbugged View Post
    Joined the Horde. You can't just say you're Horde when they're doing great things, then scurry away acting innocent when they do bad things. At least the Tauren tried to warn Jaina, what did the BEs do?
    You mean how the alliance sent an envoy to talk to them into joining the alliance but ended up being sabotours. What assholes the Sin'dorei are for not going into the alliance arms at the time and joining the Horde when the horde actually helped them.

    Also 1 sunreaver 1 not many 1 was involved in the divine bell incident. What you don't do is institute collective punishment. You punish the individual and let the others live their lives freely since omg they did nothing wrong.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    You mean how the alliance sent an envoy to talk to them into joining the alliance but ended up being sabotours. What assholes the Sin'dorei are for not going into the alliance arms at the time and joining the Horde when the horde actually helped them.

    Also 1 sunreaver 1 not many 1 was involved in the divine bell incident. What you don't do is institute collective punishment. You punish the individual and let the others live their lives freely since omg they did nothing wrong.
    So why wasn't Garithos punished, because omg the alliance did nothing wrong.

  20. #60
    Garithos was the voice of the alliance and should have been punished for his actions.

    Innocent people regardless of race or where they come from should not be punished for the actions of others. A Sunreaver going about his life is not guilty for the actions or inactions of the divine bell Sunreaver or Aethas. Who did the right thing of shutting up because the other action would have caused needless Sin'dorei deaths. Unless you come up with a plan that Aethas could have done which lead to 0 (not even 1) Sin'dorei death at the hands of either Jaina or Garrosh then you have no leg to stand on.

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