Thrall and orc blood-lust.

[Melsiren]

Well you can put them to the side if you like, this conversation was about the Orcs anyway. Only drifted that direction because people were trying to use other races actions to justify the Orcs.

Truth, it was off topic.

I don't know why there's more to say about this topic to start with, Blizzard only made Orcs misunderstood in WC3 to make them more likable to a broad audience.

Its only a big deal because the Alliance act holier than thou despite being guilty of the same crimes Orcs are.

Humanity as a whole is holier than thou with our obsession with making everything in some way a struggle against good and evil.

I genuinely don't feel any of the playable races are evil, but it's pointless to bicker because you're not going to change some ones morality and their perception of how actions align with said morality.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Its only a big deal because the Alliance act holier than thou despite being guilty of the same crimes Orcs are.

Not so much.

[Dreknar20]

Its only a big deal because the Alliance act holier than thou despite being guilty of the same crimes Orcs are.

people always have different criteria for different people, its just a fact of human nature.

An act by an ally isn't going to be judged the same as a hated enemy.

[TheDestinatus]

Its only a big deal because the Alliance act holier than thou despite being guilty of the same crimes Orcs are.

Lol, so the Humans made a deal with the burning legion, commited genocide and they repeatly invaded another planet for the express purpose of conquest and capture. No? So not the same? Alright then.

[Dreknar20]

in some way a struggle against good and evil.

LOLOLOLOL

The whole basing foreign policy on morals/principle is an American invention.

Traditional European diplomats see war as conflicting national wants.
Its Americans and there idealism that preferred to see tham as some cartoon level of good vs. evil, and during/after the world wars input those views upon the rest of the world.

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repeatly invaded another planet for the express purpose of conquest and capture.

So?
Conquest is only 'bad' to the one being conquered.
And its not like the major kingdoms of Azeroth became so through smiles and blowjobs.

[TheDestinatus]

LOLOLOLOL

The whole basing foreign policy on morals/principle is an American invention.

Traditional European diplomats see war as conflicting national wants.
Its Americans and there idealism that preferred to see tham as some cartoon level of good vs. evil, and during/after the world wars input those views upon the rest of the world.

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So?
Conquest is only 'bad' to the one being conquered.

You've heard it here folks, the Crusades had no notion of good vs evil.

WW2, Hitler didn't consider Jews evil.

You europeans and your goldfish memories.

[Melsiren]

You've heard it here folks, the Crusades had no notion of good vs evil.

WW2, Hitler didn't consider Jews evil.

You europeans and your goldfish memories.

I wouldn't have even justified him with a response.

But let's try to stay on topic lest we get the topic locked for being derailed.



Also, gods dammit Godwin.

[Dreknar20]

You've heard it here folks, the Crusades had no notion of good vs evil.

well if you see religion = morals go for it

But I put a distinction

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You europeans and your goldfish memories.

Who says I'm European?

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I wouldn't have even justified him with a response.

Why do you think things like the League of Nations or United Nations exist?

A collective security to oppose 'aggression' on principal. Not because its important to a nation, or threatening, but because of a violation of 'values'

[Nathreim]

Lol, so the Humans made a deal with the burning legion, commited genocide and they repeatly invaded another planet for the express purpose of conquest and capture. No? So not the same? Alright then.

First Orcs did not make a deal with the BL Gul'dan did. He and Ner'zul were the only ones who really knew the price not even the rest of the Shadow Council knew.

Second the Humans sold themselves like mercenaries to the High Elves for a bit of magic.

[Jack Hatchet]

How did the orcs come to play nice with the Tauren and Trolls, but can't play nice with the Alliance?

I guess the common answer that I'm seeing is that orcs try to be decent, but are easily manipulated seems to be true. However, I don't know how I feel about the orcs being idiots is any better for their reputation than them being malicious.

My impression is that if you put a random orc in a room with a random other race that the orc would try to kill that other person as their first choice of action. I can't think of any other race besides maybe Undead or trolls that would resort to violence as their first option.

[Dreknar20]

would resort to violence as their first option.

well they are a warrior race

[Zulkhan]

Garrosh's rise to power and increasing appeal with his people was rooted in things like nationalistic pride, the exploitation of several problematic circumstances (included economics and everyday-living) to gain consensus, putting emphasis in perceived wrongs and instilling plenty of factional/racial hatred as consequence of that.

Wait, where did I hear this before?

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How did the orcs come to play nice with the Tauren and Trolls, but can't play nice with the Alliance?

Because the Alliance has no intention to play nice either.

[Magistrate]

Garrosh made bad choices. He doesn't represent every, all, or most orcs. He's just a character.

[Zulkhan]

Garrosh made bad choices. He doesn't represent every, all, or most orcs. He's just a character.

A character with the ability to rally people to a common goal. Those are the most dangerous individuals and our history has much to tell about that.

His appeal began to fade the moment his extremism grew evident, reason why only a bunch of zealots remained at his side during the very last stage of his reign.

[Traveler Voltin]

All races have their evil.

[steelballfc]

didn't he had this argument before in " are the Orc's evil by natural " thread !
anyway
the orc's/Troll/Tauren are similar races in tradition and culture, all of them have unique points for sure, but they could understand each other fast " as thrall stated in Rise of the horde Novel when the Horde meet Carine and the Tauren "
on other hand there is a "Cycle of Hatred" Novel which stated that Horde and Alliance hate each other by default, in the Novel both Humans and Orc's were manipulated Easily by the Burning legion, take that under consideration.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Hahahahahaha, so good. I love this so much I could marry it. Thats a picture of the Dark Portal on Azeroths end. Thats the WC2 representation of Blasted Lands LOL!

Also, are you saying the Sahara desert, or Siberia are the cause of Fel Magic? because you do understand that planets have different biomes right?

Once again you don't have anything to do but artificially extend an argument because your so desperate to be right. The blasted lands look just like outland because of fel magic. If you actually knew any lore at all instead off the bullshit you are constantly spewing you would know that the blasted lands used to look like the swamp of sorrows.

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Are you suggesting that the Frostwolves never killed a human? The Draenei aren't innocent, you have no lore for any of the planets that bounced to during their time hiding from the Burning Legion. Who knows what they did except the unwritten stories in the designers heads. The Frostwolves may have opted out but you can be sure they killed innocent people.

Hurray for ignorance, Velen talks about all the worlds destroyed by the legion that the draenei hid on, he even shows a vision of one in his short story.

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You've heard it here folks, the Crusades had no notion of good vs evil.

WW2, Hitler didn't consider Jews evil.

You europeans and your goldfish memories.

And thank you for once again doing my work for me and discrediting anything that you type in this argument. Resorting to generalized insults in an attempt to make your feeble arguments and poor grasp on lore seem concrete? Lawl.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Once again you don't have anything to do but artificially extend an argument because your so desperate to be right. The blasted lands look just like outland because of fel magic. If you actually knew any lore at all instead off the bullshit you are constantly spewing you would know that the blasted lands used to look like the swamp of sorrows..

Blasted Lands was arcane magic, not fel. Khadgar tried to blow the Dark Portal up at the end of WC1 (though it's possible fel energies were involved in the portal itself, but portals are traditionally the realm of arcane).

[Friendlyimmolation]

Blasted Lands was arcane magic, not fel. Khadgar tried to blow the Dark Portal up at the end of WC1 (though it's possible fel energies were involved in the portal itself, but portals are traditionally the realm of arcane).

The dark portal was fel in nature, not arcane. The means to activate it, corrupt medivh on one side, gul'dan sacrificing orc laborers and a draenei child combined with his warlocks to activate it on the other. Not to mention the explosion of fel magic it emitted when activating again in beyond the dark portal

[Mehrunes]

Once again you don't have anything to do but artificially extend an argument because your so desperate to be right. The blasted lands look just like outland because of fel magic. If you actually knew any lore at all instead off the bullshit you are constantly spewing you would know that the blasted lands used to look like the swamp of sorrows.

Not just looked like, it was a sub-region of Swamp of Sorrows.