Legion - Max Camera Distance Reduction

[TheRabidDeer]

Browsing official forums i stumbled on few napkin maths regarding new MCD. All in all with new MCD settings performance drop varies between 13-15% for raiders due to lower FoV as you lose aprox 17-20% of current visibility, mainly affecting healers and melee DPS.

What do you mean performance drop?

I took few 1920x1080 screenshoots with enabled UI before and after the chance so you can see how much of your FoV you lose with new settings.

Spoiler: 

Old MCD:


New MCD:

Putting on side all discussions about how does this affect gameplay and is this right change or not i cant but wonder how did they didnt factor in people with various visual health issues when they decided to make these changes?

I for once have Motion Sickness due to low FoV and im unable to play games like LoL, Diablo 3 and HoTS longer than an hour, hour and a half after which i MUST take a break for ~15-20mins or ill get sick, so i used CVar settings out of necessity, not to gain advantage over other players.

I got same Motion Sickness symptoms with new Legion MCD settings, which is, you must admit, for a monthly subscription based product to limit playability and affect health of people with various visual health issues not ok.

As i said in my previous comment in this thread, they maybe did it because of new competitive PvP, e-sports or even facebook stream feature, who knows, but they could limit it where it matters the most - in PvP, to "even the fields" for all players, but they should leave PvE and open world untouched, this is, after all, feature thats over a decade old and for various reasons people were using it for a long time.

You don't lose field of view. The degrees that you see are the same, you just see less of the world. Are you using a rather large monitor or sitting close to one? Lights on? What are your framerates?

[Fabinas]

Fuck there are alot of retards in this community.

Yeah there is alot of salt here, people are pissed by the change, didnt say their opinions are invalid or anything, just mentioned that people are unhappy, wasnt even a part of my argument, and i did express my opinion. Dont see how im a sheep in the heard when im specifically going against popular opinion and providing the other side of the argument so this doesnt turn into an echo chamber

It is hidden, the option isnt available through the games default UI, thats hidden, there are no buttons to manipulate this, you need to do some console command, just because alot of people do know it, doesnt mean everyone does, and its not an option many players will understand by interacting with the game itself, the information for it comes from third party sources, so, YEAH it is hidden.

Well too bad i suppose that you dont like it and dont want to play the game because of a camera option, have you tried out any of the new camera features to fill in the gaps that this change made you miss?


It is hidden power, macros are similarly hidden power, most players, despite what you may think, dont macro all of their abilities, and there will be a distinct advantage between those who do and those who dont, as macros generally lead to less button presses and less keybinds.

Macros for the most part though dont affect immersion the way max camera length does, which zooms you so far out that you are a dot. Its useful however because some bosses are so damn big that you can only see their big toe, the new camera features go a long way to fix these issues as they allow you to manipulate angles better rather than rotation around your character. I am ok with these changes as long as blizz fixes some of the other issues that make max camera distance necessary.

You're a sheep for your "salt" comment. Not for your minority opinion of this being a good change.

So this "hidden power" of the max camera distance has to be pruned because it is more gamebreaking than ANY other macro that offers game utility? Really? I wonder why Blizzard hasn't fixed the macro that allows you to switch to HC Deathwing fight after clearing the rest of the instance in normal (or using a save after Normal Spine). And that's an example of an exploit macro. I wonder why Blizzard allows macros of two abilities cast with one button press if one if off the gcd. It's one press invoking TWO abilities, not two SIMULTANEOUS pressed abilities. Those are two examples of gamebreaking stuff that can give an unfair advantage to ANYONE who wants to search actively for those. Not setting your camera further than the in-game slider with a legitimate game command, just to have a larger range of choice where to set your zoom level on the fly.

Hidden power or not, removing choice is a bad thing. As for the new camera options? I play on live with no camera adjustments from the game, because i like to adjust the camera angle myself than letting the game decide it for me. One of the first things i did in beta was to disable any automatic camera optimisation and to find how to enlarge my camera distance. I managed the first, failed the second and haven't logged in since.

[Alexeht]

This is one of this changes that we realize will be intensely unpopular with the group of players that has used console/WTF CVars to increase camera zoom beyond what the UI slider permits. For everyone else, they probably won't see what the big deal is, since it's removing a hidden option that most never used. But for those who are accustomed to an increased max zoom, it's changing the way you're experiencing the game in a way that feels restrictive and simply worse. So why would we do that?

[/QUOTE]

Really?!? MOST never used?!? I wish to know from where they get stats from since I use it from the time my whole guild had to use it to defeat boss I no longer remember which was super difficult without max distance macro. Why would they remove it?!? This is a really bad choice ...

[ColbaneX]

I've used max default for years, don't see the big difference. What you have currently is more than enough to see safely.

[grexly75]

I've used max default for years, don't see the big difference. What you have currently is more than enough to see safely.

I don't get it either, but I can see it now..

Legion launches..

Blizz Guy 1 "Why are there only 5 people playing?"

Blizz Guy 2 "Oh you didn't know all the other subscribers left in a huff over the removal of that hidden camera command."

Blizz Guy 1 "You mean the /console CameraDistanceMaxFactor command?"

Blizz Guy 2 "Yeah that command."

Blizz Guy 1 "Wow really and I thought it was because we only gave them half an expansion."

Blizz Guy 2 "No it was only because of the /console CameraDistanceMaxFactor command."

Blizz Guy 1 "So what do we do now?"

Blizz Guy 2 "I guess we are going to have to break the bad news to the higher ups and shut down the servers and put all our efforts into Overwatch."

Blizz Guy 1 "I guess you are right well you go tell them while I shut down the servers such a shame but oh well here goes nothing 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 "Thank you for playing World of Warcraft but unfortunately due to lack of interest we are closing the game down, hope to see you in Overwatch."

[Rezhial]

Genuinely one of the worst ever put in game.

[Redblade]

I agree flying has been in the game for 10 years why remove it now? Oh wait you're talking about camera distance... shucks well guys they know best right?

Apples and oranges...

[Glorious Leader]

Apples and oranges...

Both features that have been in the game for 10 years now. I believe you were in agreement with the statement "how dare they remove something that's been in the game 10 years". When I disagree with the patently stupid and regressive idea that impacts how I like to play the game then yea how dare they... 10 years!

[grexly75]

Genuinely one of the worst ever put in game.

Really? I mean really of all the other things they have done to the game you say this is the worst thing ever and I thought WoD and nerfs and what not was supposed to have been the worst thing ever.. But no a simple removal of a hidden command is the worst thing ever well now we know..

I wonder how many more people will either be getting refunds or simply not buying this expansion because of this one thing..

[Songweaver]

What do you mean performance drop?


You don't lose field of view. The degrees that you see are the same, you just see less of the world. Are you using a rather large monitor or sitting close to one? Lights on? What are your framerates?

I have a friend that plays and has the same motion sickness issues. At the distance the camera has been set at, if she sits on a flying mount and watches her character, it triggers motion sickness. No, she does not use a large monitor and she doesn't sit too close, and the frame rates have nothing to do with the trigger.

Motion sickness is the way in which things move on the screen and with limited ability to adjust the camera to a suitable distance and angle creates issues for her in many environments. There are many games she can't even play for this very reason - and Overwatch is one of those.

Yes, with the shorter camera distance you do lose field of view (extent of the observable world that is seen at any given moment). More distance means more world that can be seen, hence larger field of view.

And personally, as a healer, I have lost valuable screen real estate for raid frames that I rely on to do my job and still give me a good view of what is going on during encounters.

[Dracodraco]

What do you mean performance drop?


You don't lose field of view. The degrees that you see are the same, you just see less of the world. Are you using a rather large monitor or sitting close to one? Lights on? What are your framerates?

You lose field of view. You can see almost as much right in front of you, and if you play with your camera angled in front of your character like this:

https://gyazo.com/b5f90020be4556388beed6d33e001025

You'll barely notice the difference *in front of you*. You do, however, lose "field of view", because everything behind you and to your sides are getting cut off greatly. As you can see in my chat, the max distance is set to 28.5 which is the current proposed "max". My camera is panned down BEHIND my character to get a further view into the distance. Here's how it looks from what a raider will usually choose, a top-down view pointed slightly ahead:

https://gyazo.com/9f0efc4f8b38c00377e7f3d5deb51449

And here's both views with the current max:

Angled behind me to get a further view:
https://gyazo.com/3106cfab400a29b017cf5ff45251a056


Top down:
https://gyazo.com/e5eab2626520ffbf2b5a902c79825345

As you can see - my distance is not the issue. My back and side angles are. That field of view is entirely lost on their new proposed max zoom, and it is fucking infuriatingly dumb. So while I can still theoretically see all around me, I lose field of view in everything to the side and behind me, while I retain it in front of me.

[Numbrabbit]

It's to make the game more immersive and to give stuff size again. This goes along to help make the action cam better for those who will use it. They have made this great expansive game and for people to be zoomed out to the point where there character is a mere pixel on the screen seems a bit dumb, doesn't it?

Nope, why not allow options. People who like to be more "immersive" can, and people who like to be able to see more of the world around them can. In wooded areas or buildings, I zoom in. In wide open spaces, I like to zoom out so I can see the landscape and/or to pick up quickly when something is attacking me. Given the option, there is no advantage or disadvantage because everyone has the option. Taking the option away will give an advantage to those who do not use the zoom. And yes, I know what the responses will be, "you should have been 'not' zooming for all these years then". Maybe, but I have and I just feel people should be able to decide for themselves. On the upside, it might make it a little tougher for multiboxers to see all their toons. :P

[MoanaLisa]

Genuinely one of the worst ever put in game.

Garrisons, the perk system that killed social guilds, the evisceration of the current expansion due to a generally awful first pass at reward vs. effort and apexis dailies, will be happy to hear that.

[Volitar]

3rd party program to 'fix' the new camera inc. Hopefully they don't get super ban happy.

[Redblade]

Both features that have been in the game for 10 years now. I believe you were in agreement with the statement "how dare they remove something that's been in the game 10 years". When I disagree with the patently stupid and regressive idea that impacts how I like to play the game then yea how dare they... 10 years!

Still apples and oranges...

[Glorious Leader]

Still apples and oranges...

Nah its just hard when someone points out the utter hypocrisy. 10 years... pretty much...

[DeltrusDisc]

In answer to the poll... I don't think so? However it's been over a year since I played live...

[Vorality]

Wrong analogy. In DOTA you're not allowed to do this. In WoW you are still allowed to do this with a simple command easily found in a google search. In WoW, if you want to see more playing field NOONE stops you from getting it on your screen. if you need it, you can get it. Nothing unfair.

You're also not able to do it in WoW outside of the original in-game settings. You're using a command to change something that wasn't there previously. So I'd say it's a good analogy.

- - - Updated - - -

There is a difference between not enjoying something and being unable to play it...

If you played with a setting for 10+ years and it's taken away from you doesn't mean you can't play but sure as hell will reduce your enjoyment. Perhaps we should just remove mouse look so everyone has to keyboard turn...in the name of fairness and what not. Would you still enjoy the game as much if that happened?

I enjoyed one shotting people on my warrior in the beginning of MoP, but they had to take it out to balance the game. I still played my warrior completely fine after the nerf. They're taking this extended max camera distance out to balance the game and for other reasons I'm sure.

I doubt people will quit a game they've invested so much time in because they're unable to to see the world map without opening it.

[Redblade]

I enjoyed one shotting people on my warrior in the beginning of MoP, but they had to take it out to balance the game. I still played my warrior completely fine after the nerf. They're taking this extended max camera distance out to balance the game and for other reasons I'm sure.

Seems you like comparing apples with oranges too...what a surprise.

I doubt people will quit a game they've invested so much time in because they're unable to to see the world map without opening it.

I think you'd be surprised.

[BreathTaker]

Well now this is the worst thing Blizzard has ever came up with. Not too brutal for the game but the idea of just making worse something that is fine for no reason is stupid.
And whatever reason they may have - it's still "for no reason", because if they put something in the game that does not fit with how the game is, they should have not put it there at first place.