[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[JimSolo]

Yeah, fair enough. Means major issues can be fixed quicker without having to re-build the whole thing and roll out a patch that everyone has to restart/download. It does mean we'll have to be a bit extra careful about what is changed and when as opposed to relying on data-mining as heavily.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

I'm guessing you took it into account but just in case: are you combining the MH and OH values for soul cleave with the new, lower numbers you're reporting?

[JimSolo]

I'm only receiving one. The one that pops up on screen and the one that Details reports. As a result my only conclusion is that the MH+OH damage only applied to some abilities (fracture I know does), not SC. If that's wrong then, I'm presuming either the game combines the numbers and pumps out the number of both, or only shows the mainhand.

Details/Skada/Recount however only show it as a single hit as well.

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Must just be in warcraft logs that it reports it separately then, (unless it's changed). But based on the blue post from 5 min ago, it is the intended damage.

[Shimato]

Must just be in warcraft logs that it reports it separately then, (unless it's changed). But based on the blue post from 5 min ago, it is the intended damage.

Link please?

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Link please?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...27?page=21#401

[Yoshimiko]

How's Vengeance survival comparing to Blood DKs - especially when concerning older raids(like MoP/WoD)?

[JimSolo]

In terms of soloing, DH has the edge. There's too much utility and mobility, and (although I havn't tested it) I believe Vengeance does more damage in most scenarios as well. Although DK's magic resist and recovery may be slightly better for older stuff.

In terms of running with a few friends, play whatever you want. DPS is triple what it was in WoD (on average), so everything is going to die in 1 - 2 minutes anyway and you'll probably end up not having to bother with a lot of mechanics.

[Yoshimiko]

In terms of soloing, DH has the edge. There's too much utility and mobility, and (although I havn't tested it) I believe Vengeance does more damage in most scenarios as well. Although DK's magic resist and recovery may be slightly better for older stuff.

In terms of running with a few friends, play whatever you want. DPS is triple what it was in WoD (on average), so everything is going to die in 1 - 2 minutes anyway and you'll probably end up not having to bother with a lot of mechanics.

Whelp, That decides my xpac class, then. Thanks!

I really dislike DK since Cata, I'm glad I finally don't have to work on it to solo.

[JimSolo]

^ I forgot to mention, don't forget, every fight is different, some classes will excel on fights that others won't (DK did well in MSV, took monks a while longer to kill stuff in there. ToT on the other hand, monks roflstomped, whereas DK's had to wait till the 6.0 prepatch to kill things (although I do believe an east asian DK managed to kill Horridon, but outside of that Monk had killed most the raid by the time DK's turned up on the doorstep)). It's been like that for years, nature of the game, nothing wrong with it really, and it will continue to be in Legion. This really only applies for top end stuff though, pushing classes beyond the limits (for example doing heroic highmaul in current BiS gear on live). If you kill things a few months or a teir after the first kills, you could probably play whatever and kill it, so long as it isn't Warrior :P

[Oatz]

Strictly from a mythic+ dungeon perspective, what do you guys think will fare better: blood DK or DH? Can't decide between the two! Like both playstyles on beta

[Talrial]

Strictly from a mythic+ dungeon perspective, what do you guys think will fare better: blood DK or DH? Can't decide between the two! Like both playstyles on beta

I believe Vengeance has more tools in their kit with all the sigils and talents to deal with mythic dungeons than Blood will have. While Blood will have mass grip and death grip as well as a ranged stun, Vengeance has a mass grip that resets faster under certain conditions, ranged silence, ranged 30 sec disorient, 15% dodge area effect, a better Purgatory than Blood, and if it comes to it can run the fuck away and kite while they hope the group stabilizes. IMO at least

[hairspray]

Veng DH is fun to play but I'm worried about main tanking with it in heroic/mythic raids, it's defensive spells seem underwhelming compared to basically every one of the prot pally's damage reduction of all types spells not just physical or magical seperately.

(I'm currently 840 ilvl on my DH.)

[Talrial]

Veng DH is fun to play but I'm worried about main tanking with it in heroic/mythic raids, it's defensive spells seem underwhelming compared to basically every one of the prot pally's damage reduction of all types spells not just physical or magical seperately.

(I'm currently 840 ilvl on my DH.)

Oh I was responding to Vengeance vs Blood in mythic Dungeons. I think both those specs will be amazing after the first raid tier or so. I personally am in love with Vengeance and it harkens back to the feelings I had the first time I played Brewmaster in MoP, but I get the feeling they will need a certain level of gear before they really start to out shine everything else. Prot Paladin does have lots of Defensive abilities but might not scale as well when they start to get raid gear. My opinion of course I am nowhere near being good enough at math to back up any of this with solid proof.

[Cooper]

Looks like Vengeance got nerfed to the ground in regards to PvP. Dunno what effect the nerfs will have, but they sure are ugly.

[Deleted]

With the new Legion build (22053), we have some changes to Vengeance. I'll just relay what's relevant to us;

Soul Cleave has had its tooltip cleaned up. I may have overlooked an increase or decrease in the Soul Cleave Attack Power calculation, as it's highlighted as changed. I don't really understand the mathematical clumps of numbers we get from datamining so I assume it's nothing major. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As Cooper just said, though, there are four major nerfs to Vengeance PvP talents. Jagged Spikes got a pretty big nerf. It now only deals 30% of the damage we've taken whilst Demon Spikes is up instead of the old 100%.
Cleansed by Flame now only dispels effects on us when Immolation Aura is cast. It no longer ticks to dispel us every 1 second Immolation Aura is up.
Two other talents have had their cooldowns doubled. Illidan's Grasp has went up from a 45 second cooldown to a 1.5 minute cooldown. Reverse Magic's cooldown has gone from 30 seconds to 60 seconds.

On the bright side, the Artifact trait Soulgorger has gotten an increase in how much more total health we get per point. Rank 20 of the trait increases our total health by 15% instead of 10%, which is nice. Fel Eruption also seems to have gotten a dps boost.

Details gotten from http://www.wowhead.com/news=253875/l...3-data-updates and from the main page here on MMO-C. I might've missed some stuff though.

[Cooper]

I can see the nerf to Cleansed by Flame - essentially being untouchable by magic effects 50% of the time does seem a tad broken - but doubling the cooldowns on Illidan's Grasp and Reverse Magic is extremely yucky.

[8bithamster]

WOO! just got my first legendary

Mo'Arg Bionic Stabilizers
167 Armor
+1110 Agility
+1665 Stamina
+559 Critical Strike
+310 Mastery

Throw Glaive deals 50% increased damage with each ricochet

AOE world quests just became a lot more fun

[zox2]

Gz! Are you playing as vengeance though?

[Deleted]

Playing around with Vengeance, in fact, been fooling around with all specs, Vengeance is extremely solid, looking forward to the live game!