[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Malagan]

I know this is OT, but it's "all intents and purposes." Not intensive purposes.

Also, I agree that they may as well call him Jon Stark at this point.

I bet he could care less!

[Therougetitan]

Littlefinger keeping the secret to himself?
If it got out that Jon was half Targ, would that cause the other Northern houses to protest?

Will be interesting to see how that pans out.

They'd still probably go for him since he has Stark blood regardless. If Littlefinger has that ace up his sleeve then he'll probably wait longer for better time to use it.

[Deleted]

The top 2 people in the entire kingdom that get letters by raven are the King's Hand and the Night Watch. (Idk that for a fact but really, the Night's Watch sent EVERYONE "help the WWs are coming" letters that arrived mad quickly but they don't relay changes in leadership? I'm sure the new Lord Commander had to send out letters by now.)

But its not the Commanders but the masters who sens the raven out.

[Azrile]

My questions this week

Does anyone on Team Dany know and believe that the WW are real and coming?

Is anyone on Team Jon aware that Dany is coming with Dragons?

I think it is pretty obvious that one of the ´bittersweet´moments Martin talked about is going to come when Jamie kills Cersi to prevent her from burning the entire city when it is obvious Dany is going to take it.

But from my memory, there is just very little cross-over knowledge between Team Dany and Team Snow... except for LF who was at the small council meeting when Robert first ordered Dany to be assassinated.

[Malagan]

Mostly I groaned a little at the thought that Daenerys's talk about marriage as an incentive is going to lead to her marrying Jon, the King in the North.


Just... No, please. No...

[Elim Garak]

It's obvious she will marry the imp to make peace with lanisters

[Yvaelle]

Yeah, I hate all the idiots who talk about jetpacks and teleportations. Do the writers of the show really need to add a scene every time someone takes a carriage or boat rides and show the entire thing.

It's not really that at all - I'm perfectly comfortable with them not showing every uneventful transit and Dany's sunny week on the beach before they set sail - to go back to conquering - it's more that something has been suspicious about Varys for all this time: he's oddly, suspiciously, important and adept.

Varys is Gandalf. Note that nobody has brought up questions about any other suspiciously fast transit about any other character in six seasons, to my knowledge - but what.... thousands, tens of thousands of viewers all collectively came to the same suspicion simultaneously? None of us question Littlefinger's transit, or Tyrion's - but Varys does it and what... 1 in 20 viewers kink their eyebrows.

Maybe he's not a Warlock, or a Faceless Man, or etc - but he's something.

[eschatological]

Do they only pay Ramin Dajwadi for one episode a season? The music definitely killed it this episode, and I don't really remember much music the rest of the season.

The good:
1) I thought it was really appropriate how the Sept of Baelor blew up. Margaery realized the plot, but it was the arrogance and absolutism of the Sparrow not letting anyone out that killed them all.

2) Music and cinematography was fucking on point.

3) Jaime's scene with Walder Frey was excellent.

4) Tyrion getting Hand of the Queen was excellent, though Emilia was a little flat. Peter Dinklage was amazing, as usual.

5) Sansa rebuking LF, and having the sense while everyone was celebrating to note that LF is going to try and fuck them hard.

6) Lady Mormont was badass. Again.

The Handwave-y:
1) The jet packs I think at this point are so ridiculous you just have to wave your hands and accept them. A couple of the time lapses threw me off, namely Varys, Oleanna knowing about what happened in KL but Jaime and the North not knowing, and the white ravens when apparently made it from Oldtown to Winterfell pretty easily but Oldtown didn't know what's up.

2) Sansa apologizing and Jon forgiving her and asking for her trust instead of getting mad. It's in his character, but I would have liked it...I don't know, if he was like, "Wow, like thousands of men died." She wasn't held accountable at all for what was one of the biggest plot holes of last episode.

3) The Lords (and Lady Mormont!) of the North simply passing over Sansa without a word to declare Jon Snow King in the North. Did she legitimize him and I missed it? No one was like, "Hey, Ned Stark's trueborn daughter is sitting right there?" I understand we as an audience see through the Tower of Joy flashback that he's actually a trueborn Lord by rights, but no one in that room does, not even LF, who some conjectured thought might know about R+L.

4) Cersei showing nothing emotionally for Tommen dying. But I guess she's crazy psycho now, so it fits. One of the biggest switches for me, in the book, was finally getting some POV chapters of Cersei in books 4 and 5, where you see her as something other than a scheming, awful person - you see how desperate and alone she is, and how much she loves her kids and what lengths she'd go to protect them. She didn't even go to see Tommen after she burned down the Sept. But I can cede that that's simply not something they ever set up for her in the show, they just want her to be a badass crazy person.

5) Varys's little birds just doing what Qyburn wanted made me a little sad. Unless it turns out this was a huge plot by Varys all along. Then it's awesome.

The (Not-Really-So) Bad:
1) While certainly gratifying to see Walder Frey get his, making Manderly a one-off in the North while simultaneously making Arya cook up all the Freys over the course of one night was a bit much. Is she a Faceless Man, or not? She can change faces, but she's officially not a Faceless Man? That's pretty sloppy. Plus having these two scenes over one night sandwich some pretty big time skips was harsh.

2) If LF has had this picture in his mind this whole time, he would have never married Sansa off to Ramsay because Ramsay was an unknown, with some disturbing rumors floating around him. Not to mention he's said he wants to sit the Iron Throne when his motivations have always been to have power but not be so publicly visible. He's totally fucked himself in one move, and it's a fuck up of such large proportions it seems positively un-LF-like. Maybe he was just trying to play her with some song and dance. I hope so. Glad she didn't go for it.
.
3) Sharing information in this show seems to be anathema. Jon barely alludes to the WWs while the Knights of the Vale are arguing about not wanting to side with Wildlings. He talks about a vague threat that no one seems to understand. Maybe say, "Hey, I've been beyond the Wall, and there's an army of undead ice zombies coming to kill all of us - all the old wives tales are true. That's why these Wildlings are here, because the bonds of mankind have to be reforged against this supernatural threat." I would have loved to see LF's face had he just said that. Oldtown seems to be way out of the loop (though that may be thematic), Jaime has no idea what's been going on in KL even though he's probably marched straight down the Kingsroad from the Twins to KL.

And that's really it. It was a good episode, though I hate to see so many good characters go.

Conjecture:
1) I was a bit confused by Sansa saying Jon should have the Lord's chamber. Is she playing him? Does she really consider him a brother, and rightful ruler of Winterfell? What's her game? Is she trying to take a LF role in Jon's kingdom, being the puppetmaster?

2) Melisandre. I wonder if she'll go South to meet Dany, or if she'll run into Arya or maybe even Thoros/Beric again.

3) The Blackfish. I'm fairly certain he must be alive, the way they talked about him this episode, "the greatest soldier of the Riverlands, killed by a bunch of footmen?! Ha!" Think again, Walder Frey - oh wait, you can't.

4) I agree with most people that there's a huge set up for Jaime to kill Cersei for the exact same reasons he killed Aerys.

5) LF has to either be taken care of, or he needs to put into play some crazy heretofore unseen Master-Master Plan, since his current Master Plan seems to be fucked. I'm hoping Sansa plays Sweetrobin against LF and LF loses everything.

[Azrile]

It's not really that at all - I'm perfectly comfortable with them not showing every uneventful transit and Dany's sunny week on the beach before they set sail - to go back to conquering - it's more that something has been suspicious about Varys for all this time: he's oddly, suspiciously, important.

Varys is Gandalf. Note that nobody has brought up questions about any other suspiciously fast transit about any other character in six seasons, to my knowledge - but what.... thousands, tens of thousands of viewers all collectively came to the same suspicion simultaneously? None of us question Littlefinger's transit, or Tyrion's - but Varys does it and what... 1 in 20 viewers kink their eyebrows.

Actually the whole Jetpack thing was for LF. It is also important to note that the show went out of their way to show the Dorn and Tyrell ships with Dany, so Varys must be super-gandolf if he can teleport ships also.

I think people have already accepted that the show has to skip a lot of stuff. I mean think about all that has happened. Cersi´s walk of shame, Jon dying, Ayra being blinded, Sansa jumping off the wall, and Dany flying away on her dragon. Everything since that time has been shown in 10 hours.

[Malagan]

Jaime, the Queenslayer. Or Jaime, the Slayer-of-Generally-Whoever-Is-in-Charge-Indescriminate-of-Sex

[Milchshake]

I was a fan of the books, but the TV writers are just killing it now. After 20 years it so nice having the plot move fast again. Now GRRM cant bait readers anymore with the worst kept secret of R+I=J. Most everyone figured this out when Ned was in the dungeons under the Red Keep.


They just burned up about 12 years worth of Gordian knots. Meanwhile GRRM has 3 more banquet scenes to write before he finishes Winds of Winter. We need to know more about pease, lamprey pies, and jellied whatevers.

[Yvaelle]

They just burned up about 12 years worth of Gordian knots. Meanwhile GRRM has 3 more banquet scenes to write before he finishes Winds of Winter. We need to know more about pease, lamprey pies, and jellied whatevers.

He's researching as fast as his stomach can bare, give the man time to digest

[Azrile]

[QUOTE=eschatological;41090643
4) Cersei showing nothing emotionally for Tommen dying. But I guess she's crazy psycho now, so it fits. One of the biggest switches for me, in the book, was finally getting some POV chapters of Cersei in books 4 and 5, where you see her as something other than a scheming, awful person - you see how desperate and alone she is, and how much she loves her kids and what lengths she'd go to protect them. She didn't even go to see Tommen after she burned down the Sept. But I can cede that that's simply not something they ever set up for her in the show, they just want her to be a badass crazy person.
[/QUOTE]

I question the whole thing about Cersi loving her kids. She knew Tommen would see the Septum blow up with his wife in there... and yet she purposefully spent time with the nun chick rather than going to her son. I think she decided a few episodes ago she wanted him dead, but couldn´t be queen if she blew him up, so she put him in a suicide situation. There was almost no emotion after he was dead. I think she planned it as soon as he went with the HS

[eschatological]

I question the whole thing about Cersi loving her kids. She knew Tommen would see the Septum blow up with his wife in there... and yet she purposefully spent time with the nun chick rather than going to her son. I think she decided a few episodes ago she wanted him dead, but couldn´t be queen if she blew him up, so she put him in a suicide situation. There was almost no emotion after he was dead. I think she planned it as soon as he went with the HS

Oh, I definitely question her love of her kids, in the show. In the show, she's playing up the other facet she had in the books - that she thinks she's the Lannister most fit to rule, smarter than the men around her, braver, stronger, etc. And hand-in-hand with that is how shortsighted that belief actually is - cause she's is literally gonna be crushed between the North and Dany coming from the South. She has zero allies left and she doesn't even realize it - no Boltons, no Freys, she killed her own uncle and cousin, etc.

[Vestig3]

I wonder if cersei using wildfire on innocent people will outweight jaime's love for her as he didnt look happy, he killed the mad king for it.

[Deleted]

Soo, Where exactly is Dany going to land in Westeros? Surely not going for another Blackwater siege on KL, so somewhere south from KL and then make their way through land to KL?

[Azrile]

Soo, Where exactly is Dany going to land in Westeros? Surely not going for another Blackwater siege on KL, so somewhere south from KL and then make their way through land to KL?

It probably doesn´t matter. My first thought was south and give the Dathraki time to get their legs and get their horses strong again. But even if Tyrion assumes the worst that the lannister army is in KL, the dragons would make the walls undefendable anyway. With the Tyrells with Dany, they already know the army situation and there is literally nobody with Cersi right now. It is a war that won´t be fought.

[durrtygoodz]

Soo, Where exactly is Dany going to land in Westeros? Surely not going for another Blackwater siege on KL, so somewhere south from KL and then make their way through land to KL?

She will probably land in Dorne and march north, thanks to her new alliance.

[zoefschildpad]

I question the whole thing about Cersi loving her kids. She knew Tommen would see the Septum blow up with his wife in there... and yet she purposefully spent time with the nun chick rather than going to her son. I think she decided a few episodes ago she wanted him dead, but couldn´t be queen if she blew him up, so she put him in a suicide situation. There was almost no emotion after he was dead. I think she planned it as soon as he went with the HS

Remember what the crazy witch lady told her as a girl. "Gold will be their hair and gold will be their shrouds." After she lost two children I think she's given up on Tommen. She knows he's going to die too and there is nothing she can do but brace for the inevitable. And I don't think she could bear to face him after what she just did.

[RobertoCarlos]

Pretty good ep. Tommen's death scene would rank as one of my favourite death scenes. Was hilarious.

A little girl shouting in a hall declaring Jon Snow the king of the north was a little eh....isnt there enough strong woman on the show do we really need Briene 2.0 house mormont style