European Superstate Incoming

[Bytch]

It's purely a matter of seperating powers and authority.

For example you can make local government have full authority over: education, culture, welfare, etc. and federal government's power and authority would be limited to: Security, market regulations, etc.

More 'localized' governments tend to be really bad at organizing or overseeing security and market regulations, but they tend to perform strong on areas of education, culture, welfare programs, etc. compared to 'larger territory governments'.

Individual countries getting rid of administrative chaos and excessive spending on individual armies and police / security and instead spending less on a more efficient federal army / police etc. could be highly beneficial for everyone involved. It's also entirely possible for there to be overlap and for in certain cases to have local government have priority in authority over federal government.

Actually it hasnt worked out well for the USA. It worked for a time. Then in the last 70+ years, the USA has been changed and has went downhill since. You can even go back as far as the US Civil War and see the start of it's decline. The US had a Federal Govt with different "states/countries" that had their own Armies, state and local Govt's. But the end result of it's Civil war was to end the 10th Amendment and make it illegal for the "states/countries" to leave the Union. And ever since then the ever growing Federal Govt has taken individual rights away, among many other things that havent turned out well at all. So, to unify is to begin your decline.

[Macaquerie]

Euro was an attempt at unification, it has been nothing short of an epic fail.

French and German call for "solidarity" regarding Greece was nothing but bullshit move to save their own banks. And you want these people to setup a unified government?

To Germany/France their own businesses and banks will always come first. Everyone else be damned - anything else is just PR.

The euro was probably one of the biggest "this is why we can't have nice things" moments of our lifetimes. I mean, on the surface it's such an amazing idea that makes life so much easier for everyone, but then you get into the nitty gritty details of monetary policy and it doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.

Actually it hasnt worked out well for the USA. It worked for a time. Then in the last 70+ years, the USA has been changed and ha went downhill since. You can even go back as far as the US Civil War and see the start of it's decline. The US had a Federal Govt with different "states/countries" that had their own Armies, state and local Govt's. But the end result of it's Civil war was to end the 10th Amendment and make it illegal for the "states/countries" to leave the Union. And ever since then the ever growing Federal Govt has taken individual rights away, among many other things that havent turned out well at all. So, to unify is to begin your decline.

The US definitely peaked in 1860, you know, when half the country was a slave based agricultural economy that couldn't even produce enough food to feed itself. We've been trying to climb back up the mountain ever since...

[ati87]

They are under a foreign power right now, and see it as their chance to start being more independent.

Who is the bloody foreign power? The Chinese, Russians, Americans or what?

The EU exist out of their own members, if your calling the EU a Nazi tyrant (if your living inside a EU country|) then your calling yourself a Nazi tyrant.

[Slant]

Polish TVP reached 9-page document that is to be presented to the members of Visegrad Group in today's meeting with German minister of foreign affairs Frank-Walter Steinmeier. The document presents a consensus reached in recent post-Brexit meeting of most influential EU countries' leaders, and outlines the future of EU as a single superstate, including:

- Federal army and special forces, single countries not allowed to have their own army (like in USA)
- Unification of penal law and tax system.
- Euro as the only allowed currency.
- Unified travel visa system.
- Unified foreign politiciss, with reduced role of NATO.

The link to original article: (in polish)
http://www.tvp.info/25939371/nasz-ne...ncji-i-niemiec

Majority of most important media in poland are all beginning to talk about this.




Polish minister of foreign affairs Witold Waszczykowski confirms the existence of document:
http://www.tvp.info/25939623/waszczy...dzielenie-unii


Edit: adding link to original document in english:
http://www.tvp.info/25939587/europej...nalny-dokument

I don't believe any of that until I see it in English or German media.

[Rend Blackhand]

European federalisation isn't a conspiracy theory or even a badly kept secret. It's always been the main intention of the EU but they know that change must come slowly if it is to work properly and even then I don't think it will.

There is not much that unifies Europe. There is no common culture, language or even religion across the continent. European unity has always felt artificial.

[ati87]

The euro was probably one of the biggest "this is why we can't have nice things" moments of our lifetimes. I mean, on the surface it's such an amazing idea that makes life so much easier for everyone, but then you get into the nitty gritty details of monetary policy and it doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.

Says you...it's a great idea and a great execution.

EU has done something that no other country has, it's a alliance between so many smaller countries that together the economic power the EU holds is greater then the US.

We aren't in a era where countries can go and do some wars to become richer (see invasion of Iraq). So when anti EU crowd speaks of the good old days pre EU era the closest time period they are referring to pre European alliance is +150 years ago.

[Mayhem]

People are instantly seeing "unification" as meaning that local governance will go away.

You can have strong local government and an overarching unified government.

In fact it's entirely possible to unify the EU further while also giving smaller and more local governments more power over their own turf. The two are not at odds with each other.

We have to educate the voters A LOT befor this will go through.

Example no. 1: The UK

[Daerio]

Just being a bigger economic power for it's own sake isn't enough. Bigger government for the sake of bigger government is the worst idea in human history. Bigger government does not create wealth; it saps it like a vampire.

Looser federal government that's able to effectively operate cheaply, plus local government that actually responds to citizenry. I don't know how you accomplish this, because as soon as somebody gets power they continually vote themselves more power and we come right back to where we started.

There's effectively zero checks and balances in any modern government.

[Bytch]

The euro was probably one of the biggest "this is why we can't have nice things" moments of our lifetimes. I mean, on the surface it's such an amazing idea that makes life so much easier for everyone, but then you get into the nitty gritty details of monetary policy and it doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.





The US definitely peaked in 1860, you know, when half the country was a slave based agricultural economy that couldn't even produce enough food to feed itself. We've been trying to climb back up the mountain ever since...

The end result of the US Civil War didnt rid the country of it's slave based economy. It enlarged it by making every one a slave. Especially in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act. Then again in 1933 with the Federal Emergency Act (The US great Depression), which still has not been lifted.

[Kontinuum]

I don't believe any of that until I see it in English or German media.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ

[Thunderball]

Who is the bloody foreign power? The Chinese, Russians, Americans or what?

The EU exist out of their own members, if your calling the EU a Nazi tyrant (if your living inside a EU country|) then your calling yourself a Nazi tyrant.

Mostly NATO. To lesser extent US and other powerful EU members. European government should be independent to govern Europe if it takes on more power.

[Mayhem]

Euro was an attempt at unification, it has been nothing short of an epic fail.

French and German call for "solidarity" regarding Greece was nothing but bullshit move to save their own banks. And you want these people to setup a unified government?

To Germany/France their own businesses and banks will always come first. Everyone else be damned - anything else is just PR.

Every poll tells a different story, since the younger generations are way more in favour of the EU than the older generations, so the attempted unification is well on it´s way.

[Chrno]

Borders are silly things anyway created by mankind....
The only way forward is by working together untill we become 1 world state were everyone is treated equall.... we can call it ... EARTH ....

People trying are trying way to hard trying to preserve their own way of life. Unified earth is the future and we'll get there step by step ... maybe in 10.000 years or so ;p

[Slant]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...-idUSKCN0ZC0BQ

That article doesn't go near as far as the OP claims. It's just the strengthening of existing ideas. By far not a superstate. Crucial elements of sovereignity are not being handed over.

[ati87]

European federalisation isn't a conspiracy theory or even a badly kept secret. It's always been the main intention of the EU but they know that change must come slowly if it is to work properly and even then I don't think it will.

There is not much that unifies Europe. There is no common culture, language or even religion across the continent. European unity has always felt artificial.

So when right wingers use this European culture argument to make sure Turkey doesn't become a member they are just talking BS then? Because they have managed to make sure the Turkish government is so sick of the games that they aren't even bothering to look for the approval of the EU.

Also not sure why the EU members need that common culture or language? I can go to the US and the difference between lets say Texas and New York would be just as big as going to England and Scotland for example.

We have a system that allows us to achieve more as a group then as individuals. As a individual country we are't investing a ton of money into research while our neighbors are investing into the same thing, no we are investing together.

The EU as a institution is inevitable, people complain about how it evolved from basic trade partnership to something bigger while ignoring the reason why. Basic principles of the EU is the free movement of people and goods, in order to achieve this every country has to follow the same basic rules and regulations or it would end up becoming a mess if every country has it's own rules.

[oxymoronic]

S
The EU as a institution is inevitable, people complain about how it evolved from basic trade partnership to something bigger while ignoring the reason why. Basic principles of the EU is the free movement of people and goods, in order to achieve this every country has to follow the same basic rules and regulations or it would end up becoming a mess if every country has it's own rules.

lol nah, EU was germany's way of ruling the continent and you fools fell for it

stand for nothing and you will fall for anything.

[Revi]

Borders are silly things anyway created by mankind....
The only way forward is by working together untill we become 1 world state were everyone is treated equall.... we can call it ... EARTH ....

People trying are trying way to hard trying to preserve their own way of life. Unified earth is the future and we'll get there step by step ... maybe in 10.000 years or so ;p

Borders are as silly as the idea that people should be able to have self determination and sovereignty I guess. Personally I don't think that's silly at all.

[Deletedaccount1]

Such an awful idea.

[Mormolyce]

I'm not understanding how it's arbitrary. Europe is made up of many different cultures and ethnicities who have lived in the same regions for hundreds of years.

Is it arbitrary for the Danes to want to make laws for Denmark where the Danish people have lived for over 1,000 years?

Just because you say something is arbitrary doesn't mean it actually is.

Those people don't suddenly become completely different people at the border you know, they blend. The lines on the map were very different 1,000 years ago. And many ethnicities have come into existence and disappeared in that time. Shit nations didn't really even exist in the modern sense in the Middle Ages, it used to be every little duchy and fiefdom for itself. But then guess what, the differences between areas within countries became less important and a sense of national identity emerged... you know, like what's happening with Europe now...

Just because things are a certain way doesn't mean they should stay that way.

It's kind of hard to formulate a response to this aside from WTF. But I should be used to ever more bold globalist left wingers saying ridiculous shit by now.

There's millions who would take you up on that offer, including me. Our federal government is a monster which undermines local government any chance it gets, instigates wars for corporate and globalist interests, blackmails states after getting them hooked on grant money, among other things.

I'm right wing

Okay but states are still too big, let's make every town an independent country.

[Kuntantee]

Impossible due to linguistic and cultural differences.