European Superstate Incoming

[Deleted]

I don't really liek this idea, but I'm not opposed to it either. However first Europe needs to get rid of USA occupation before this happens. I don't want innocent Europeans sent to die in the middle east, just so that USA elite and corporate elite profit from it.

[TwoNineMarine]

So what government tried to implement a unified europe during her childhood?

Seriously, there´s a difference between one side trying to rule the other through means of war and all sides trying to get closer together and form a ruling entity.

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You´re the one comparing nazi germany to the EU. But i´m the one believing shenanigans.

Similar premises.

Wanting unification to make the continent "stronger" and better etc etc. It's no wonder people are wary of it.

You are afraid to have a discussion that involves anything revolving around Germany in the 30's and 40's. You refuse to entertain any possible thought around that premise. Frankly it's something that needs to be discussed and thought over and debated. Refraining from those things, ignoring what happened in the recent past, and blindly pushing forward like we are somehow magically better then those who lived in that time is a dangerous road.

I think you know that yet will continue down said road because it makes you feel better and doesn't hurt your sensibilities. Be a man and quit being afraid of anything and everything. Have a discussion like we are in our PMs.

[DSRilk]

This will totally end well. Asking people to give up self governance always goes over well.

It worked for the US...

[unbound]

Consolidation of power is what the EU was all about.

No sovereignty, no borders, onerous inescapable taxation, more censorship, phasing out national identities, and a giant step toward world government.

People should be terrified and staging armed rebellions at the mere plotting of this.

rofl

The proposal pretty much makes the EU like the US itself with each country functioning like a US state.

So, as a US citizen, you have no sovereignty, onerous inescapable taxation, massive censorship, no state identity, and the US is nearly a world government?

Hyperbole much?

[nonameelf]

It worked for the US...

You mean Americans joined with other Americans? What a surprise!

[Wildtree]

Similar premises.

Wanting unification to make the continent "stronger" and better etc etc. It's no wonder people are wary of it.

Also needs to be mentioned that those times weren't limited to one force, known as Nazi Germany.
The correct approach would be the Axis powers.

[Kuntantee]

I´m talking about eu-citizen immigrants. Obviously the language barrier isn´t that much of a problem and will be even less over time since the younger generation are already speaking a common language besides their first language.

I am not sure how language is not a problem. Half of Europe can't speak English (the potential common tongue), but they just left the union. Good luck convincing them to join the superstate. Even if we assume Brits are willing to join, picking the common language will be a problem. People will ask why English, and not French. Although there are good reasons, people will ask that question regardless and demand French to be common tongue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englis...ish_EU_map.svg

On average in 2012, 38% of citizens of the European Union (excluding the United Kingdom and Ireland) stated that they have sufficient knowledge of English to have a conversation.[6]

Cultural difference will be a problem, especially when you have absolute freedom of travel. Brits even complain about Eastern Europeans, they will suddenly be Brits' countrymen? Not really. They will stay immigrants to most. How about economy? The power of European economy is due to Western European countries, mainly France, UK and Germany. Smaller Central/Northern European countries may have high GDP per capita, but their GDP is not big enough to feed poorer Eastern European nations. Germans/French/Brits and rich "dwarves" of Europe, e.g., Holland, will suddenly be less wealthy, because their money will also go to Eastern Europe. Last, but not least, is unified army. It's really hard, if not impossible, to create an army composed of distinct nations.

[Zylos]

So what government tried to implement a unified europe during her childhood?

Seriously, there´s a difference between one side trying to rule the other through means of war and all sides trying to get closer together and form a ruling entity.

100% this. The whole nazi thing is strawman here. The circumstances are completely different in that it's a PEACEFUL attempt at unified democracy not tyrannical overthrowing/dictatorship.

I think the hardest thing for Europe is the language barrier across borders, but the whole culture thing is a moot point. The USA is exactly what happens when you take people from literally every culture on earth and put them together. Sure there are minor tensions and nothing is perfect (it isn't in EUrope right now either) but mostly it doesn't matter and it works pretty damn well. US warred with itself once in the past 150 years, the divided Europe has done it several times in that same time period.

[Stacyrect]

I'm curious why a Continent with well over a 100 languages needs 1 language when even the United States has no official Language. F' man the EU's language policy was my favourite thing, its inclusive attitude and help to minority languages was important.

English is the language of america

[Mayhem]

The Nazi regime.
That was literally Hitler's goal under Nazi rule. To establish the third Reich. They've used that term with their propaganda campaigns.

Quote Hitler, Berlin Sportpalast:

So you are too comparing the nazi regime to the EU? ... ok

[shimerra]

English is the language of america

Practically speaking. Legally speaking, which is what is being discussed, no.

[Palmtree]

We can all act like England is the strange duck here, but then we step over the fact that probably half of the European countries would follow if we were able to vote yes/no about leaving Europe.
EU will be done in 10 years time, this is only the first step of many to follow in returning to the way it was.

[mkultra55]

You mean Americans joined with other Americans? What a surprise!

Prior to the Constitution and during the Articles of Confederation America was very similar to the current EU. It was a collection of self governing entities who had loose ties to a weak central government. That system didn't work then and was changed to its current state and it doesn't seem to be working out for the EU. A common currency needs a single monetary policy.

The advantage America had was all the Colonies considered themselves British prior to the Revolution. They had a common language and a common history for the most part.

[Mayhem]

I am not sure how language is not a problem. Half of Europe can't speak English (the potential common tongue), but they just left the union. Good luck convincing them to join the superstate. Even if we assume Brits are willing to join, picking the common language will be a problem. People will ask why English, and not French. Although there are good reasons, people will ask that question regardless and demand French to be common tongue.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englis...ish_EU_map.svg

As i said, the younger generations are learning english, the most if not all of them, not only because it´s pretty much needed if you´re ever going to work with partners outside of your country but also because it´s the language of the internet.

Cultural difference will be a problem, especially when you have absolute freedom of travel. Brits even complain about Eastern Europeans, they will suddenly be Brits' countrymen? Not really. They will stay immigrants to most. How about economy? The power of European economy is due to Western European countries, mainly France, UK and Germany. Smaller Central/Northern European countries may have high GDP per capita, but their GDP is not big enough to feed poorer Eastern European nations. Germans/French/Brits and rich "dwarves" of Europe, e.g., Holland, will suddenly be less wealthy, because their money will also go to Eastern Europe. Last, but not least, is unified army. It's really hard, if not impossible, to create an army composed of distinct nations.

Hmm judging by polls younger generations also have less problems with cultural differences.

[Wildtree]

So you are too comparing the nazi regime to the EU? ... ok

Indeed, because it wasn't just the Germans. It was the axis powers. An array of European countries.
Whether that construct is formed forcefully is secondary.
Similar to the 1940s, such construct finds next to no societal support today either.

The idea of a unified Europe goes factually back to Charlemagne.
So, if you will it's 1200+ years old.

[Kuntantee]

Practically speaking. Legally speaking, which is what is being discussed, no.

Legal considerations is irrelevant when you want to form a superstate with bunch of different states with bunch of different nations. It needs to function somehow and it is not going to function just because you state it has one official language, or one thousand for that matter.

[Theodarzna]

English is the language of america

We have no official language, English is a common language but by no means official. In 100 years it could be Spanish, or really anything. But there is no official language.

[Kuntantee]

Hmm judging by polls younger generations also have less problems with cultural differences.

So we are talking about at least 50 years a head in the future? Well, perhaps. Not in this, or the next generation tho. By the way, only two problems may cease to exist in future; language barrier and Brits not wanting in. Cultural differences will remain, so is creating an army from different nations, and so is wealth redistribution in Europe. European superstate means wealth redistribution.

[Theodarzna]

Because for some reason people put efficiency and economics above everything else. They see no value in things like culture or language.

An EU with no regard for European cultures will be stillborn.

[Mayhem]

Similar premises.

Wanting unification to make the continent "stronger" and better etc etc. It's no wonder people are wary of it.

You are afraid to have a discussion that involves anything revolving around Germany in the 30's and 40's. You refuse to entertain any possible thought around that premise. Frankly it's something that needs to be discussed and thought over and debated. Refraining from those things, ignoring what happened in the recent past, and blindly pushing forward like we are somehow magically better then those who lived in that time is a dangerous road.

I think you know that yet will continue down said road because it makes you feel better and doesn't hurt your sensibilities. Be a man and quit being afraid of anything and everything. Have a discussion like we are in our PMs.

I don´t need to discuss something only because you want to make it part of the discussion, you have to actually show similiarities.

The EU isn´t one side against the other, it´s not overtaking other countries, it´s shared responsibility while moving closer together. No one is being forced to do so, and judging by prosperity, the idea of working together rather than working against each other seems to be the way to go.