How do we make the working class/middle class happy.

[Xada]

Let them eat cake, famous last words

[Theodarzna]

Well look at how the politics in the US have trained people to think. The belief that somehow labor is a "lesser" type of work. The belief that trying to act on your own economic self-interests is "entitlement" and you should just "work harder" instead.

Its more shocking to me when European's do it, because in my mind they should know better. I expect it from Americans, I did not expect it from Europeans or Europhiles. But Oh' boy did the hatchets come out on the left against the poor, the working class and the old.

[Tinykong]

A lot of these people their sense of self worth depends on their job, making a living, making things of value used by society.

They're going to suffer a huge hit to their self esteem.

That sucks, but unfortunately, we're not heading towards a future with more jobs and less people, we're heading towards more people and less jobs.

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but certainly within a few generations.

[Independent voter]

Ultimately though it was the influx of North Africa and Middle Eastern migrants, had the EU maintained the outer border the Brexit fight would not have been so dire. But the political and media class in Europe decided "Refugees!" was the new cause celebre and paid no mind to its ill effects and even actively ignored them.

I'm sure that didn't help.

I have a theory that Putin got Russia's long term ally Assad to terrorize the Syrian Sunnis and drive them into the EU like cattle to destabilize the EU. This is in retaliation for the EU sanctions on Ukraine and Crimea, Putin being ex-KGB.

[Theodarzna]

The EU is a good example of how you fix globalization. Open borders for citizens of EU member states, a unified tax code, regulation that applies to all industries equally, etc.

The idea of jobs going to other places in the world isn't as scary if there's ease of labor mobility that allows labor to follow jobs. Right now, if jobs leave the US and go to Mexico, India or China, it only benefits the corporations here and the workers there, because there's no way for American workers to follow those jobs. And the main reasons why 3rd world countries have labor available for $3 a day is because there's no unification of regulations; no minimum wage, no EPA, no safety regulations, etc. It's why there are sweat shops, child labor, and factories that burn to the ground or explode or collapse killing hundreds of workers over there.

Also, manufacturing jobs aren't the end-all. The United States is developing past being a manufacturing economy and moving into a service and tech economy. Just as we did when we moved out of the industrial age, just as we did when we moved out of the agricultural age. Regardless of globalization, people here need to adapt to the new economy or they'll be economically left behind.

Service and Tech will not employ this country at full employment, indeed we haven't had full employment since the 50's, and even then It wasn't full employment.

You talk of Globalization as if its a force of God and not the actions of men, this is inaccurate. The problem is Labour isn't at the table in these "Trade Agreements," at all. Only one class is represented and only one interest is represented.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure that didn't help.

I have a theory that Putin got Russia's long term ally Assad to terrorize the Syrian Sunnis and drive them into the EU like cattle. This is in retaliation for the EU sanctions on Ukraine and Crimea, Putin being ex-KGB.

IMHO if more exit votes come up, then I think it could be the EU killer.

Also I doubt Putin is that much of a master mind, more over the EU didn't have to accept them. This is just Merkel shifting the blame for her own fuck up.

[apples]

That sucks, but unfortunately, we're not heading towards a future with more jobs and less people, we're heading towards more people and less jobs.

Maybe not in our lifetimes, but certainly within a few generations.

its a shame that the government can only print so many jobs per year.

[alexw]

Let em keep more of their own money and quit giving it to others?

Err what???? This makes no sense whatsoever.

The lower/mid classes are net beneficiaries of economic transfers. That is they get more out of the system in terms of benefits and government provided services than they pay in to cover (think medicaid, medicare, SS, their share of infrastructure upkeep costs vs infrastructure usage, etc, etc). So any broad based tax cuts will make them poorer and less well off just as all the other tax cuts since Reagan have done.

[Stacyrect]

3 words

Quality of Life

[Baelic]

What I don't think Britain realizes... is that regardless of whether they stay in the EU or not... they'll still have to compete.

[Dadwen]

Err what???? This makes no sense whatsoever.

The lower/mid classes are net beneficiaries of economic transfers. That is they get more out of the system in terms of benefits and government provided services than they pay in to cover (think medicaid, medicare, SS, their share of infrastructure upkeep costs vs infrastructure usage, etc, etc). So any broad based tax cuts will make them poorer and less well off just as all the other tax cuts since Reagan have done.

low income maybe, and maybe the really low end of the middle but this is about the middle. (hence the title How do we make the working class/middle class happy.)

[Kalis]

Let them eat cake, famous last words

The working class in Britain seem to be eating nothing but cake.

[alexw]

A lot of these people their sense of self worth depends on their job, making a living, making things of value used by society.

They're going to suffer a huge hit to their self esteem.

Yes they will. But there is nothing we can do about it. Its not as if we can stop march of the technology. We are simply going to have to evolve as a society so that sense of worth comes from other things (caring for family, contributing to online communities like this one, etc, etc) rather than work that doesn't exist any more.

[Tinykong]

its a shame that the government can only print so many jobs per year.

Even if we stop all forms of welfare...we're heading towards less jobs. Advancements in computers and automation are not making more jobs.

INB4 "People have been saying this for 100 years!"

[alexw]

low income maybe, and maybe the really low end of the middle but this is about the middle. (hence the title How do we make the working class/middle class happy.)

No. You are flat out wrong. The middle class also receive more in benefits and services than they pay in to cover. Even for the upper middle class its basically a net wash. They pay in roughly about as much as they receive out. Its only the upper class and the super rich (top 20%) who are net payers in. Honestly why on earth do you think that the republicans always go on so much about tax cuts while using social policy instead of aforesaid tax cut issues to garner votes? Its because as a proportion of the electorate there is only a tiny bunch of fringe right-wing nutters willing to vote for tax cuts that will make themselves worse off,, so republicans have to use social issues instead!



Just realized that this graph only depicts direct transfer income and does not include gov paid for services (infrastructure spending is an example of this), so even for the upper middle class they are net beneficiaries of current tax policy. Which makes it even more of a no-brainer that the middle class will be worse off if taxes are cut.

[Dadwen]

No. You are flat out wrong. The middle class also receive more in benefits and services than they pay in to cover. Even for the upper middle class its basically a net wash. They pay in roughly about as much as they receive out. Its only the upper class and the super rich (top 20%) who are net payers in. Honestly why on earth do you think that the republicans always go on so much about tax cuts while using social policy instead of aforesaid tax cut issues to garner votes? Its because as a proportion of the electorate there is only a tiny bunch of fringe right-wing nutters willing to vote for tax cuts that will make themselves worse off,, so republicans have to use social issues instead!



Just realized that this graph only depicts direct transfer income and does not include gov paid for services (infrastructure spending is an example of this), so even for the upper middle class they are net beneficiaries of current tax policy. Which makes it even more of a no-brainer that the middle class will be worse off if taxes are cut.

if you can come up with that I'd like to see what they consider transfer income to the "middle class" looking over their site the only * I could find were all programs the middle class would not qualify for.

*and even going off that site the Middel only get about 2$ worth of services from the gov for their money where as the lower gets about 42$ for theirs seems fair right....

**and as I told someone else I'd feel a lot better if more of my $$ was going to a service that directly benefited me fire police roads rather than someone else.

[alexw]

if you can come up with that I'd like to see what they consider transfer income to the "middle class" looking over their site the only * I could find were all programs the middle class would not qualify for.

It says what they are in the notes provided in the data link given -
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...bles_Final.xls

"Government transfers are cash payments from Social Security, unemployment insurance, Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (and its predecessor, Aid to Families with Dependent Children), veterans’ programs, workers’ compensation, and state and local government assistance programs. They also include the value of in-kind benefits, such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program vouchers (formerly known as food stamps), school lunches and breakfasts, housing assistance, energy assistance, and benefits provided by Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program. (The value of health insurance is measured on the basis of the Census Bureau’s estimates of the average cost to the government of providing such insurance.)"

*and even going off that site the Middel only get about 2$ worth of services from the gov for their money where as the lower gets about 42$ for there's seems fair right....

What exactly are you trying to argue? The evidence is clear and unequivocal. For that quintile for every $ they pay in taxes they receive $2.14 in transfer income, and would receive even more if the 40% of gov spending that isn't direct transfers was included. Hence tax cuts would make then worse off than they currently are. So how on earth are you going to make them better off by marking them worse off which is what you are arguing would happen???? And that's even before shooting down your argument that the middle class somehow is only composed of only 20% of the population.....

[Dadwen]

It says what they are in the notes provided in the data link given -
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...bles_Final.xls

"Government transfers are cash payments from Social Security, unemployment insurance, Supplemental Security Income, Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (and its predecessor, Aid to Families with Dependent Children), veterans’ programs, workers’ compensation, and state and local government assistance programs. They also include the value of in-kind benefits, such as Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program vouchers (formerly known as food stamps), school lunches and breakfasts, housing assistance, energy assistance, and benefits provided by Medicare, Medicaid, and the Children’s Health Insurance Program. (The value of health insurance is measured on the basis of the Census Bureau’s estimates of the average cost to the government of providing such insurance.)"



What exactly are you trying to argue? The evidence is clear and unequivocal. For that quintile for every $ they pay in taxes they receive $2 in transfer income, and would receive even more if the 40% of gov spending that isn't direct transfers was included. Hence tax cuts would make then worse off than they currently are. So how on earth are you going to make them better off by marking them worse off which is what you are arguing would happen???? And that's even before shooting down your argument that the middle class somehow is only composed of only 20% of the population.....

You may know different middle working class people than I know, but what Items in that list are they eligible for?

*and as I said before it's not all about tax cuts it about getting my money worth, better roads, police etc, not paying for someone else not to work.

**and thinking about it we are talking about the Gov't here I'm not sure they are good at judging what value we are getting for our taxes... (sure they are overpricing it to make it look good for them)

[klogaroth]

The working class in Britain seem to be eating nothing but cake.

Not just the working class.

Office cake culture is 'danger to health'

[alexw]

You may know different middle working class people than I know, but what Items in that list are they eligible for?

Medicare and SS are the big ones. Coincidentally they are the programs that eat up a massive share of federal expenditure to which all other transfer programs pale in comparison. And honestly are you now trying to argue that the central budget office, the gov department set up to measure these sorts of things, doesn't know what it is talking about and you know better? Are you going to go right-wing nutjob on me?

FYI Its pretty obvious that if the middle class is to benefit taxes must go up and Reaganism must be undone.....

[Dadwen]

Medicare and SS are the big ones. Coincidentally they are the programs that eat up a massive share of federal expenditure to which all other transfer programs pale in comparison. And honestly are you now trying to argue that the central budget office, the gov department set up to measure these sorts of things, doesn't know what it is talking about and you know better? Are you going to go right-wing nutjob on me?

FYI Its pretty obvious that if the middle class is to benefit taxes must go up and Reaganism must be undone.....

I don't think you'll find many middle class that feels they are getting that value for their $$ in the first place, hence the unhappy middle class, and both of those are benefits they receive after they are done being a working class if they survive and if those don't go "bankrupt" or whenever as everyone keeps warning they will.

You really think the Central budget office is going to admit they may not be managing the money right or getting the best bang for the buck? (you can't tell me the governments reputation for mismanaging money is not founded in some fact?)

and throw all that in with a generation of people learning how to play the system (and even flaunting it) you're going to get some disgruntled people.