How do we make the working class/middle class happy.

[alexw]

I don't think you'll find many middle class that feels they are getting that value for their $$ in the first place, hence the unhappy middle class, and both of those are benefits they receive after they are done being a working class if they survive and if those don't go "bankrupt" or whenever as everyone keeps warning they will.

You really think the Central budget office is going to admit they may not be managing the money right or getting the best bang for the buck? (you can't tell me the governments reputation for mismanaging money is not founded in some fact?)

and throw all that in with a generation of people learning how to play the system (and even flaunting it) you're going to get some disgruntled people.

What on earth are you talking about? Its transfer programs. There is no "value for money involved" concept involved in transfer spending. The gov takes the money in and hands it back out. It does not decide if patients need medicare monies spent on them. It does not get to decide whether to pay out or withhold social security.

And what they believe is irrelevant. Hell half the population doesn't think global warming is real despite mountains of evidence and nearly half believe god made man 10,000 years ago. Hard data trumps belief every and any day of the week, month, year, decade, or millennium.

[Independent voter]

I'm not sure what else to do other than take a chunk of the earnings from globalization and give that money to the working class. In a sense you can say it's the fair thing to do since they aren't in a position to take advantage of globalization, but they do suffer from it.

[Dadwen]

What on earth are you talking about? Its transfer programs. There is no "value for money involved" concept involved in transfer spending. The gov takes the money in and hands it back out. It does not decide if patients need medicare monies spent on them. It does not get to decide whether to pay out or withhold social security.

And what they believe is irrelevant. Hell half the population doesn't think global warming is real despite mountains of evidence and nearly half believe god made man 10,000 years ago. Hard data trumps belief every and any day of the week, month, year, decade, or millennium.

seems fairly simply, people don't feel the roads, etc and other government objects in their care are getting taken care of for the amount of money in taxes that are being spent. (simply put as in that site that had the chart people don't feel they are getting as much as the Govt agency says they are getting, or example that site said in 2009-(I think) the Middle class people were getting $2.14 value for every 1$ of taxes they paid and most Middle class people don't feel that way.

And what they believe\feel is kinda the point of the entire thread, If they really believe the government was getting them the best bang for their buck or managing the programs the best way possible do you think they would be as unhappy.

*for help I put in bold the part in your quote where I believe people have the most issues, and that with how it's being handed out.

[Damajin]

Get rid of work.

There's a good line from an Acid Bath song that describes it perfectly: "Work for pay, pay for freedom. Fuck 'em all, we don't need 'em."

[Toxigen]

This is the real answer. We have to become a society that doesn't require work to live.

Ok, I've heard it all now.

[Gamdwelf]

Ok, I've heard it all now.

No but for realz work is just the worst.

[alexw]

seems fairly simply, people don't feel the roads, etc and other government objects in their care are getting taken care of for the amount of money in taxes that are being spent. (simply put as in that site that had the chart people don't feel they are getting as much as the Govt agency says they are getting, or example that site said in 2009-(I think) the Middle class people were getting $2.14 value for every 1$ of taxes they paid and most Middle class people don't feel that way.

And what they believe\feel is kinda the point of the entire thread, If they really believe the government was getting them the best bang for their buck or managing the programs the best way possible do you think they would be as unhappy.

*for help I put in bold the part in your quote where I believe people have the most issues, and that with how it's being handed out.

No you are misreading the data. Transfer payments have absolutely nothing to do with roads, armed forces spending, and other such indirect but possibly helpful spending. The data includes only direct transfer payments so there is absolutely nothing whatsoever involved based on "value". If I take $10 from you and spend it on roads then it may or may not be useful to you depending on how/what is connected. But if I take $10 from you and then give you $20 there is no "value" component. Thus the gov is taking $10 from you and giving you $21.40 dollars of cash as social security money in return. You then get as much or as little value from that SS money as you can. It is taking from you $10 and giving you $21.40 dollars of healthcare which you and your doctor decide how it is spent on you in return. You then get as much or as little value from that healthcare money as you can. You are getting $2.14 dollars in direct monies for every $1 dollar of tax you pay without even including such indirect but possibly useful spending such as on roads. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. It is happening. Period. That you don't believe reality is your problem not realities.

[Vash The Stampede]

#1 Increase their pay. Just like California which plans to make minimum wage $15.

#2 Offer cheap or free education. Garbage man needs a degree at garbage so he can get $15 per hour.

#3 Enforce labor laws. You know, hire citizens of country not people from another country which get paid far less. This shit is getting out of control.

[Lord Berserker]

Stop Importing Working class people from other countries so Working class professions such as Brick laying can be worth it for the local working class.

[Ghostpanther]

That's not really true. There are a lot of people that go mad if they don't have a job. My dad looked for work and was getting very depressed for 2 years after getting laid off at 67. Only recently has he been able to get over it by focusing on house improvement and going back to fixing electronics he finds on the garbage.

This is a good point. I know a guy I use to work with who made over 100k per year at his job before we retired and now at 78 works at Walmart as a door greeter. I asked him " Joe, why are you working here, I know you do not need the money?" He said, " I need something to force me to get out of the house and keep my mind off things."

However I retired at 53 and have not had a boring moment since. But I do keep busy. Remolded my bathroom last winter and put a new metal roof on my house and out buildings this spring. Myself. The kitchen is the next goal to be remolded. Before all this, I built a 12 x 30 foot deck. So yeah, one key to being happy is to have goals I think.

But I do like the concept of letting the middle class keep more of their money and for all to have access to a decent job.

- - - Updated - - -

#1 Increase their pay. Just like California which plans to make minimum wage $15.

#2 Offer cheap or free education. Garbage man needs a degree at garbage so he can get $15 per hour.

#3 Enforce labor laws. You know, hire citizens of country not people from another country which get paid far less. This shit is getting out of control.

That is a decent min wage there. But the cost of living is much higher there than it is like here in Ohio. 10 dollar min wage would be good for here. And tie it with automatic cost of living increases each year. I agree wholeheartedly with number 3 however.

[Spectral]

If the goal is addressing people that feel personally disrespected and affronted, addressing it via empirics is bound to fail - it's not about that. Likewise, addressing people that are already irritated at a political class that looks down on them and mocks them, looking down on them and mocking them is not likely to improve the state of affairs.

Both of these sentiments seem to elide urban leftists on both sides of the pond. Many seem to believe that if only they explain to Brexit voters (or Trump supporters) how stupid they're being, it'll become convincing.

[Independent voter]

If the goal is addressing people that feel personally disrespected and affronted, addressing it via empirics is bound to fail - it's not about that. Likewise, addressing people that are already irritated at a political class that looks down on them and mocks them, looking down on them and mocking them is not likely to improve the state of affairs.

Both of these sentiments seem to elide urban leftists on both sides of the pond. Many seem to believe that if only they explain to Brexit voters (or Trump supporters) how stupid they're being, it'll become convincing.

So a solution for these angry Americans is to vote Trump in? It will send Washington a message at least?

[Dadwen]

No you are misreading the data. Transfer payments have absolutely nothing to do with roads, armed forces spending, and other such indirect but possibly helpful spending. The data includes only direct transfer payments so there is absolutely nothing whatsoever involved based on "value". If I take $10 from you and spend it on roads then it may or may not be useful to you depending on how/what is connected. But if I take $10 from you and then give you $20 there is no "value" component. Thus the gov is taking $10 from you and giving you $21.40 dollars of cash as social security money in return. You then get as much or as little value from that SS money as you can. It is taking from you $10 and giving you $21.40 dollars of healthcare which you and your doctor decide how it is spent on you in return. You then get as much or as little value from that healthcare money as you can. You are getting $2.14 dollars in direct monies for every $1 dollar of tax you pay without even including such indirect but possibly useful spending such as on roads. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant. It is happening. Period. That you don't believe reality is your problem not realities.

How many working Middle class (*the title of the thread) people are currently on SS? *would seem if they were on SS currently they would not be in the Middle income working class.... So as of now they are not getting any of their taxes back in $$ other than services provide by the Gov't.

*and to compound the unhappy they have this to look forward to unless they plan to retire in the next 20 or so years..
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...ent-32416.html
http://money.cnn.com/2015/02/10/reti...cial-security/

[Cricket22]

seems with that extra money I could buy a "lot" of those things, seems to be fairly on point seeing how much I pay into it every year and what I could buy with that money.

Don't believe that old hype money can't buy happiness, for the most part it can.. (or at least let you have a really comfortable misery)

It's not that money buys happiness, but rather that lack of sufficient money can buy a great deal of unhappiness.

[Hemak]

What could the government do? It's job. Protect life, liberty, and property. Stop trying to "help" people, that's not what government is for.

[Nihilist74]

Raise taxes on the rich, raise capital gains taxes, raise taxes on companies that use foriegn labor. Give companies tax breaks that use american labor, offer good pay, benefits and train their workforce. Put higher taxes on imported goods. Do more public works like fixing bridges and highways. Build light rail and high speed trains going everywhere in america. Rent control laws. Better education system where money is actually spent on education and not on overpaid administrators. Dont overspend on military equipment. Public single payer health care. Create more american doctors by giving people with good appitudes a free education in medicine. Give people a free education who show high appitudes for math and science so that america creates more of its own technology. More vocation education programs for high school students.

[Fugus]

Raise taxes on the rich, raise capital gains taxes, raise taxes on companies that use foriegn labor. Give companies tax breaks that use american labor, offer good pay, benefits and train their workforce. Put higher taxes on imported goods. Do more public works like fixing bridges and highways. Build light rail and high speed trains going everywhere in america. Rent control laws. Better education system where money is actually spent on education and not on overpaid administrators. Dont overspend on military equipment. Public single payer health care. Create more american doctors by giving people with good appitudes a free education in medicine. Give people a free education who show high appitudes for math and science so that america creates more of its own technology. More vocation education programs for high school students.

Say this in the mirror 3 times and Skroe will appear behind you, kill you and then blame Bernie Sanders for it.

[Pangean]

Say this in the mirror 3 times and Skroe will appear behind you, kill you and then blame Bernie Sanders for it.

Brilliant line.

[Nihilist74]

Who's Skroe?

[Kronik85]

I'm with the other Brits. Free drugs! Free drugs for all!!