BREXIT - leave or remain?

[draykorinee]

Been there done that and the fact I was one a dispensing course during the last few months which had lots of tests and exams I had to cram for I still found the time to get enlisted and vote it literally took 5 mins of my time your cousins excuse was bone idleness sorry to say.

Good for you, unfortunately you're clearly not the majority.

[Tinch]

That's why you don't stand up on a podium. You slowly, quietly kill it. You let days turn to weeks, turn to months, turn to years with no activity on the Article 50 front. No politician will want to take responsibility for canceling Brexit. But neither will any politician want to take responsibility for pressing the big red Brexit button. The solution? Let a non-binding referendum result die in silence. And then a couple of years out have some superficial EU talks, a parliamentary "vote of approval" for some kind of superficial new deal, and forget the whole thing ever happened.

Before we know it, it'll be 2019 and the British will be thinking "hey didn't we have to do something a couple of years back?"

This would hardly be the first such time "policy by silence" has been used in Western democracy.

You underestimate the British people if you think they will simply forget.

[ati87]

I read here that having a weaker currency was actually good thing and having devalued stocks was even better. Brexit - crash the market so foreigners could buy off the companies

A lower currency is good if you have a ton of export like China...

Having foreigners buying of your companies cheap is usually a bad sign, because it means your companies are worthless!

[Triks]

Which is largely a result of the EU being unable to conduct centralised monetary and fiscal policy.

Again, 99% of the problems with the EU come down to it not having enough federal power.

I agree, monetary and fiscal policy need to go hand-in-hand. However, the problem is that the EU is a loosely-based federation that has a single market. At this point, talking about "The United States of Europe" and common armies is out of the question and ludicrous to even bring into debate. Even though we share a lot of common history and tradition, we are still 28 different nations with different character traits and mentalities.

For example, I will always have more in common with Poles and Czechs rather than Spaniards and Swedes simply because we had different upbringings and grew up in vastly different environments.

[Deleted]

It'll be interesting alright. Referendum was advisory, no Parliament can be bound by it's predecessor and a party that wins a mandate to not invoke Article 50 or hell, even outright ignore the Referendum will have a democratic mandate from the people. Which mandate is stronger? (My guess is the latter).

This I feel was the only real valid wiggle room left. However Corbyn, right now refusing to fall on his sword has made this a practical impossibility.

What we may well see in the next weeks is the emergence of a real 3 party system. Brexit will be a "thing" that both happens and gets used as a cautionary tale for decades.

[Elegiac]

Yeah, why have any kind of voting at all eh? They just allow that pesky, stupid electorate to get in the way.

The amount of anti-democratic rhetoric I've seen from Remainers and some commenters on here is genuinely terrifying.

As critical as I am of the US political system, they understand something that you lot do not - and that is that 'the People' represent as much a branch of government as the Judiciary or Executive branches. They are capable of falling to corruption, making mistakes, or resorting to tyranny - which is why you have checks on their political power as much as the other branches. Hence while they elect the head of the Executive branch and the members of the legislature, they themselves do not vote on anything above local or state level initiatives (even then, it remains to be seen whether such are actually net positives).

The other thing that you fail to understand is the dichotomy of trustee versus delegate. The people's representatives are not just their mouthpieces, they are also individuals in whom power has been entrusted. Their foremost duty is to the state and its welfare, and if the wishes of the People threaten that, then they can and should ignore it.

- - - Updated - - -

You underestimate the British people if you think they will simply forget.

The whole Diana affair proved just how fickle the British public can be.

[Skroe]

It'll be interesting alright. Referendum was advisory, no Parliament can be bound by it's predecessor and a party that wins a mandate to not invoke Article 50 or hell, even outright ignore the Referendum will have a democratic mandate from the people. Which mandate is stronger? (My guess is the latter).

Because sometime in the last 20 years Western politicians lost the ability to talk sternly to their constituents and call them out on their stupidity, the UK and EU is going to have to go through some kind of ridiculous face saving bullshit exercise.

Here's how I think it will go down.

September 2016 - New PM.
December 2016 - Announcement of new EU-UK "talks" (about what? we shall see!)
Janurary 2017 - Talks commence. The US is in the room frowning at everybody this time.
March 2017 - Talks conclude, the UK gets some mostly meaningless and face saving pounds of flesh.
April or May 2017 - Parliament votes on the "deal". Everyone except the UKIP and hardcore Brexiters declare victory and write of 2016 as a really stupid year.

[draykorinee]

This I feel was the only real valid wiggle room left. However Corbyn, right now refusing to fall on his sword has made this a practical impossibility.

What we may well see in the next weeks is the emergence of a real 3 party system. Brexit will be a "thing" that both happens and gets used as a cautionary tale for decades.

Personally, we're about to see a one party system, the Lib Dems are not even close to electable and the Labour party have imploded. The Tories will chose May over Boris and they'll be untouchable. Maybe I'm being pessimistic.

[Triks]

Yeah, why have any kind of voting at all eh? It just allows that pesky, stupid electorate to get in the way.

The amount of anti-democratic rhetoric I've seen from Remainers and some commenters on here is genuinely terrifying.

I don't think it is very democratic of your government to hold the entire world hostage and threaten us with another recession because your politicians were acting in their own interest.

[Skroe]

You underestimate the British people if you think they will simply forget.

I think that any democratic people's capacity to bitch and moan is impressive.

I think that any democratic people's capacity to forget about it five days later is utterly boundless.

So yes. I think forgetting about it is exactly what will happen.

[Elegiac]

Because sometime in the last 20 years Western politicians lost the ability to talk sternly to their constituents and call them out on their stupidity

RIP Paul Keating.

[Noradin]

It'll be interesting alright. Referendum was advisory, no Parliament can be bound by it's predecessor and a party that wins a mandate to not invoke Article 50 or hell, even outright ignore the Referendum will have a democratic mandate from the people. Which mandate is stronger? (My guess is the latter).

This part is clearly wrong.

[Deleted]

That's why you don't stand up on a podium. You slowly, quietly kill it. You let days turn to weeks, turn to months, turn to years with no activity on the Article 50 front. No politician will want to take responsibility for canceling Brexit. But neither will any politician want to take responsibility for pressing the big red Brexit button. The solution? Let a non-binding referendum result die in silence. And then a couple of years out have some superficial EU talks, a parliamentary "vote of approval" for some kind of superficial new deal, and forget the whole thing ever happened.

Before we know it, it'll be 2019 and the British will be thinking "hey didn't we have to do something a couple of years back?"

This would hardly be the first such time "policy by silence" has been used in Western democracy.

Not going to happen, the decision is made, the pound and markets have taken a hit, to try and forget about this would be worse than brexit financially as there is not much stability right now.

[Elegiac]

I think that any democratic people's capacity to bitch and moan is impressive.

I think that any democratic people's capacity to forget about it five days later is utterly boundless.

So yes. I think forgetting about it is exactly what will happen.

Again, I point to the whole Diana affair. Compare it to the Abdication crisis and the Queen's present popularity.

- - - Updated - - -

This part is clearly wrong.

It's not. The House of Commons is forbidden from any act of perpetuation.

[TheTaurenOrc]

Personally, we're about to see a one party system, the Lib Dems are not even close to electable and the Labour party have imploded. The Tories will chose May over Boris and they'll be untouchable. Maybe I'm being pessimistic.

15 years ago you could have said the same thing about Labor.

[Noradin]

I do think so as well. There is a strategy, where big corporations can manipulate currency of smaller countries to their benefit. Countries that get targeted with that strategy are in bad situation, without it, however I am all for every country having their own currency. For example if Greece kept their currency, their situation would be much easier to solve. Their currency would drop, the loans would naturaly lose value and it would be easier for them to get back on their feet. Not to mention without the support of Euro, many of their loans wouldn't happen in the first place and they wouldn't overextend as much as they did.

With "easier to solve" you mean they would just take the saved money of middle class without giving them a say on the matter.

[Deleted]

Personally, we're about to see a one party system, the Lib Dems are not even close to electable and the Labour party have imploded. The Tories will chose May over Boris and they'll be untouchable. Maybe I'm being pessimistic.

What I think might happen is the labour party split and form a new party with the lib dems. We are for sure about to see 1.5 to 2.5 terms of Boris or May and extreme austerity.

[Elegiac]

Not going to happen, the decision is made, the pound and markets have taken a hit, to try and forget about this would be worse than brexit financially as there is not much stability right now.

Markets do recover once the source of uncertainty has been excised, you know.

[Bollocks]

What could possibly go wrong...

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...erstate-Brexit

The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”.

Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

Sovereignty is overrated.

[draykorinee]

I don't quite understand how being apart of a majority of something has to do with being an idle sod?

Well, your judgement on students who didn't vote is because they are idle sods, they're the majority of students. You clearly weren't an idle sod so you're the minority, its pretty obvious what I was saying.

Personally my cousin was disinterested in politics at a stressful time of his life, but idle sod is what I shall call him now.